Daughter’s friend acts like a twat

outthereandbeyond · 2025-02-19T13:31:09+00:00

I’m failing as a parent here because I really don’t know where the boundary is. my DD (8) has a friend (8) who really behaves badly, like all the time. On play dates, she is rude, never says please/thank you, throws things, breaks things (in my house) will have meltdowns and cry literally like a baby over the smallest things. Demands food then won’t eat it, defies rules when we’re together. Just everything annoying you could possibley think of in a child. I’m ADHD, single mum & can get triggered when im overwhelmed. She came over for a play date yesterday and pushed me beyond my limits. I get a splitting headache whenever she’s around. the mum is a good friend of mine, and I’ve tried speaking to her about it and suggesting small edits to how we parent in the pretence that we’re both fumbling through this journey. For example I suggest encouraging her to model using word when daughter cries instead of tears, or encouring our children to put on their own shoes (this child refuses to get dressed alone). My friend insists that my daughter is just as bad (she really isn’t) but I say yeah yeah, so as not to offend and to let them be as they’re finding their way in the world. I just disagree with this and feel that the girl plays up because the mum never models good behaviour. Here is where everyone will shoot me…, my friend says she suspects her now to be SEN/autistic which would make sense - only SUSPECTS, not diagnosed. My daughter IS diagnosed with SEN. But now my daughter accepts this awful behaviour when they’re on play dates and I don’t think my daughter should be putting up with this. One time this girl refused to wipe her bum after a poo and asked me to do it (our house). I explained that I wasn’t going to touch her body as it was private and that she ought to wipe herself or pull up her pants and deal with it at home. She screamed and cried for me to do it but I kindly declined as o didn’t think it was right to touch her, after all I wouldn’t be comfortable with someone doing it to my daughter at 8. After a few minutes all was quiet. When I went to check, my daughter, was wiping her bum for her. I pulled daughter aside and said ‘honey. That’s not your responsibility but your friends’ but my daughter said she would do it as she has special needs (not diagnosed, mind). I told the mum and she said she thought it was fine as that’s what friends should do…. 🤯 help me, I want to guide my daughter and I don’t think she should be putting up with this in a friendship. if I am wrong then please tell me gently.

WearyAuldWumman · 03/03/2025 02:54

I'm glad that you've broken off the friendship, OP.

I'm ND, as are several members of my family. I've taught many ND children over the years.

I'm dismayed at the posters who have accused you of being "judgemental of a child with SEN". The child may well be ND, but what you have described is a child who is badly behaved because of inadequate parenting.

In 40 yrs of teaching, I've come across a handful of instances where poor parenting has exacerbated the difficulties encountered by ND children. The only thing that I'm certain of in the case that you describe is that poor parenting is definitely a factor. You're doing right to keep your distance from this family - your duty to your daughter comes first.

There may well be some kind of SEN to factor in here, but you're not an educationalist or a psychologist and it's not your job to fix things.

ItGhoul · 03/03/2025 02:34

outthereandbeyond · 02/03/2025 20:48

Thanks all for your numerous comments and perspectives. The situation has since developed and we are no longer on speaking terms with the family now.

There was ‘an incident’ while my daughter was on a play date with the child and her mum. My daughter came home with an injury from what I understand the mother braked the car hard while the children were in her car because she got angry with them and wanted to scare them or teach them a lesson. My daughter was hurt. I raised it with the mum and she got angry with me for raising it. I won’t go into detail about it as it’s been pretty distressing.

I have to call out what this is: a mum who is completely emotionally disregulated and does not show regulation to her daughter. The daughter behaves like a toddler. SEN or no SEN and I’m frankly relieved that the relationship has now come to a close before my daughter could get hurt further by either the daughter or the mum!

You posted a thread with screenshots of your text conversation with the mother about the car incident, didn’t you? But it got taken down for privacy. (Unless there’s been two extremely similar incidents with two different Mumsnetters?!)

It sounds as if the situation in the other child’s family is extremely chaotic and the mum sounds like a complete loose cannon. You’ve definitely done the right thing by taking your daughter out of the situation.

Original poster

outthereandbeyond · 02/03/2025 22:16

LilacLilias · 02/03/2025 21:57

Honestly I'd be quite worried about your friend's daughter. If her mum will do something like this with your daughter in a car, what other things could she be doing? I think I'd be calling NSPCC to be honest. I know the thread is about the friendship but the whole picture is quite concerning, especially what's just happened.

I have no evidence for NSPCC. My 8 year old daughter’s word against this mum. I’m just going to let this go and through the years I’ll hear through our mutual friends how she’s doing. My concern is when her daughter gets to teenage years because her behaviour is so bad now. I can’t see it improving - especially with how the mum has acted now.

OP posts:

LilacLilias · 02/03/2025 21:57

Honestly I'd be quite worried about your friend's daughter. If her mum will do something like this with your daughter in a car, what other things could she be doing? I think I'd be calling NSPCC to be honest. I know the thread is about the friendship but the whole picture is quite concerning, especially what's just happened.

LilacLilias · 02/03/2025 21:44

I'm really sorry that happened to your daughter. Honestly someone who does something like that (and defends it!) shouldn't be looking after children. Really nasty and scary behaviour. I hope your daughter is ok.

Original poster

outthereandbeyond · 02/03/2025 20:50

Those of you who said I was disgusting or bad names, kindly fuck off. The reality is you know nothing about how careful and thoughtful I try to navigate this world in my situation. I try to do best by my daughter, my friends and family and myself. I don’t always get it right, and dont pretend you do either. If I listened to you and not my instinct then my daughter could end up getting really hurt by these people.

those who have shown empathy and kindness, thank you. You give me strength and courage to stay true to myself and continue on this crazy path we’re all trying to walk.

OP posts:

Original poster

outthereandbeyond · 02/03/2025 20:48

Thanks all for your numerous comments and perspectives. The situation has since developed and we are no longer on speaking terms with the family now.

There was ‘an incident’ while my daughter was on a play date with the child and her mum. My daughter came home with an injury from what I understand the mother braked the car hard while the children were in her car because she got angry with them and wanted to scare them or teach them a lesson. My daughter was hurt. I raised it with the mum and she got angry with me for raising it. I won’t go into detail about it as it’s been pretty distressing.

I have to call out what this is: a mum who is completely emotionally disregulated and does not show regulation to her daughter. The daughter behaves like a toddler. SEN or no SEN and I’m frankly relieved that the relationship has now come to a close before my daughter could get hurt further by either the daughter or the mum!

OP posts:

LilacLilias · 28/02/2025 08:43

@Witchtower I get where you're coming from but as we don't know any of the people involved it seemed important to ask the question. On the face of it I would guess there is more to this behaviour than a lack of guidance from mum. Either unsupported SEN, a child whose developmental needs are not being met, or both. Aside from the friendship issue I wanted to find out if OP felt the girl is at risk. In a similar way to how people judge SEN children, I've noticed a lot of people also dismiss children as naughty when really their behaviour is sign of something wrong.

Witchtower · 28/02/2025 07:03

LilacLilias · 28/02/2025 02:26

I'm sorry to hear about the parents at your children's school. That is awful and no one should behave that way.

I think though in this situation OP has described it's not just about an autistic girl. It's about a girl who may be autistic but if she is, is not being supported properly by her parents. Some of the behaviours OP described are also behaviours I've seen in children who have grown up in abusive or neglectful households, and as OP mentioned her friend's seeming denial about her daughter's behaviour, it is worth considering if the little girl is actually being neglected. Some of OP's other posts also suggest that her needs might not be being met.

I do have a lot of experience with SEN and although not a social worker have worked as a caseworker in adjacent services and have worked with many families with safeguarding involvement. I think safeguarding is everyone's responsibility so it's important to ask what's going on as this may not just be SEN or random bad behaviour. Either way this girl needs support, but equally OP doesn't need to support a friendship that she feels is inappropriate for her daughter.

Edited

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I agree, the mother does not need to support a friendship that she thinks is detrimental to her daughter. The main issue is the way OP is describing this child, which I personally find unacceptable.

I do disagree about the suspicion on abuse.
OP had mentioned the mother does everything for her, for example, her laces and wiping her bum. What she meant by modelling positive behaviour is encouraging the child to do these things for herself.

The fact the OP’s friend has suggested that OP’s child is ‘just as bad,’ makes me wonder if OP is slightly in denial herself and that what they both deem as bad behaviour may differ.

In regards to the bum wiping, I knew I child who had sensory difficulties and couldn’t touch toilet paper. This did not mean they could not wipe their own bum but that touching the toilet paper gave them sensory overload. I’m not suggesting this is the case, but it is a possibility.
Personally I would be uncomfortable doing this for an 8 year old but I would sit by the door and follow the child through the process or would ask if I could hand her a wipe instead, not say no and walk off.

The girls mother has confided in her friend that she believes her child may have SEN. To some parents this is very difficult to take on board and this mother has began to notice differences, therefore wanting to seek help. She is taking the first step for support.
This is not a mother in denial but definitely a mother who needs to support her child in being more independent.
The fact OP continues to state her child is diagnosed but her friends child isn’t, is highly inappropriate. As if it is a competition.
As I said before waiting lists for CAMHS in my area is currently at 5 years and still growing.

I work in a safeguarding role myself and this is not something I would raise but I would definitely discuss it with the schools SENCO to provide the mother with more support.

Every time I read a mumsnet thread I always wonder how it would be written from the other persons point of view. Obviously in the this case I wonder what OP’s friends post would read like.

ShadowStriker · 28/02/2025 04:06

Oh my God, I hate such a child, refuse to let her into your house!

LilacLilias · 28/02/2025 02:26

Castor12 · 27/02/2025 12:53

deep breath
I signed up just to vent on this post. The responses are typical of people that have absolutely not exposure to SEN children, and frankly, shame on most of you.

Firstly, both of my children are severely autistic, the parents at school judge them harshly and don't include them in anything - they don't understand or try to understand. They are different, they are unique.

The child in question potentially has autism based on your description, and their parents need to take accountability here. She needs a diagnosis (which can take months or even over a year, ours did) and help to overcome these kinds of boundaries. The fact she's "acting up" to normal day-to-day is pretty much expected with anything SEN related.

Remember, not all SEN are created the same, you have ADHD and you are nothing like my children, but if someone called my kids "twats" for having "meltdowns" you be your bottom dollar I'd have something colourful to say.

Get a clue, if it bothers you, don't invite her round, your daughter showed empathy by helping her friend, take a leaf out of her book. How dare you suggest letting her go home in her own filth.

Have a great day everyone.

I'm sorry to hear about the parents at your children's school. That is awful and no one should behave that way.

I think though in this situation OP has described it's not just about an autistic girl. It's about a girl who may be autistic but if she is, is not being supported properly by her parents. Some of the behaviours OP described are also behaviours I've seen in children who have grown up in abusive or neglectful households, and as OP mentioned her friend's seeming denial about her daughter's behaviour, it is worth considering if the little girl is actually being neglected. Some of OP's other posts also suggest that her needs might not be being met.

I do have a lot of experience with SEN and although not a social worker have worked as a caseworker in adjacent services and have worked with many families with safeguarding involvement. I think safeguarding is everyone's responsibility so it's important to ask what's going on as this may not just be SEN or random bad behaviour. Either way this girl needs support, but equally OP doesn't need to support a friendship that she feels is inappropriate for her daughter.

Witchtower · 27/02/2025 16:08

Castor12 · 27/02/2025 12:53

deep breath
I signed up just to vent on this post. The responses are typical of people that have absolutely not exposure to SEN children, and frankly, shame on most of you.

Firstly, both of my children are severely autistic, the parents at school judge them harshly and don't include them in anything - they don't understand or try to understand. They are different, they are unique.

The child in question potentially has autism based on your description, and their parents need to take accountability here. She needs a diagnosis (which can take months or even over a year, ours did) and help to overcome these kinds of boundaries. The fact she's "acting up" to normal day-to-day is pretty much expected with anything SEN related.

Remember, not all SEN are created the same, you have ADHD and you are nothing like my children, but if someone called my kids "twats" for having "meltdowns" you be your bottom dollar I'd have something colourful to say.

Get a clue, if it bothers you, don't invite her round, your daughter showed empathy by helping her friend, take a leaf out of her book. How dare you suggest letting her go home in her own filth.

Have a great day everyone.

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

I have to add that in the borough I live in the waiting list is currently 5 years.

Castor12 · 27/02/2025 12:53

deep breath
I signed up just to vent on this post. The responses are typical of people that have absolutely not exposure to SEN children, and frankly, shame on most of you.

Firstly, both of my children are severely autistic, the parents at school judge them harshly and don't include them in anything - they don't understand or try to understand. They are different, they are unique.

The child in question potentially has autism based on your description, and their parents need to take accountability here. She needs a diagnosis (which can take months or even over a year, ours did) and help to overcome these kinds of boundaries. The fact she's "acting up" to normal day-to-day is pretty much expected with anything SEN related.

Remember, not all SEN are created the same, you have ADHD and you are nothing like my children, but if someone called my kids "twats" for having "meltdowns" you be your bottom dollar I'd have something colourful to say.

Get a clue, if it bothers you, don't invite her round, your daughter showed empathy by helping her friend, take a leaf out of her book. How dare you suggest letting her go home in her own filth.

Have a great day everyone.

Pherian · 22/02/2025 15:18

You’re not. The whole situation sounds unhealthy. I honestly wouldn’t be having these play dates anymore.

I would gently explain you’re happy to do joint activities where you’re both looking after your own kids and leave it at that.

Emmz1510 · 22/02/2025 14:12

If the child needs her bottom cleaned at age 8, the mother should have let you know.
It does sound like she has additional needs, but that would not affect my decision to put distance between the children. The mother is a CF.

pollymere · 22/02/2025 11:38

@Botanybaby I don't understand why you're so full of vitriol.

Botanybaby · 22/02/2025 09:51

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Original poster

outthereandbeyond · 22/02/2025 09:25

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hilarious 😂
posts like yours make me chortle while supping my tea ☕️
jog on idiot

OP posts:

Botanybaby · 22/02/2025 08:21

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Botanybaby · 22/02/2025 07:53

Stop having playdates with her it's that simple

Also it's not a contest who's got what SEN

AND don't call 8 year old kids twats it's really not normal behaviour

Miaminmoo · 22/02/2025 07:35

I’ve voted that you ABU because you should just stop having this child over - you’ve tried speaking to Mum and got nowhere so just explain that you can’t cope with them together and leave it at that.

pollymere · 21/02/2025 23:22

BTW... I don't think you sound awful. The child probably does have PDA but that doesn't excuse or explain them smashing up things or needing a child the same age to wipe their arse! Nor does it explain the behaviour of the Mum.

Witchtower · 21/02/2025 21:42

outthereandbeyond · 21/02/2025 20:59

Dont apologise. Your comment shows me exactly how I should view you. Judgemental and narrow minded.

I don’t keep focusing on anything expect trying to understand the situation and how to handle it. I dont know what makes a SEN symptom, I’m mo expert, and I had to google POA! Because I am LEARNING! And I have come hear to find ways to manage.

if you want to pick out negatives lines and interpret them to fit your view point, then go right ahead.

Show quote history

That was extremely hypocritical.
Judgemental and narrow minded? Did you read your own post??

daleylama · 21/02/2025 21:13

Witchtower · 21/02/2025 20:31

Sorry, but you sound awful. Mainly because you keep focusing on the fact she is not diagnosed, and your daughter is.

From what you have described it is quite clear she had SEN, especially PDA. I am not excusing her behaviour, but can definitely see the struggles from what you have said.

It seems as though her needs trigger you, which is also understandable, but the way you speak about this child is truly disgusting.
Your daughter on the other hand sounds quite sweet.

Neurodivergent people tend to gravitate towards each other as they tend to have more in common, hence why your daughter may be friends with her.

Blimey, your diagnosing abilities know no bounds ! Not judgey at all !

Original poster

outthereandbeyond · 21/02/2025 20:59

Witchtower · 21/02/2025 20:31

Sorry, but you sound awful. Mainly because you keep focusing on the fact she is not diagnosed, and your daughter is.

From what you have described it is quite clear she had SEN, especially PDA. I am not excusing her behaviour, but can definitely see the struggles from what you have said.

It seems as though her needs trigger you, which is also understandable, but the way you speak about this child is truly disgusting.
Your daughter on the other hand sounds quite sweet.

Neurodivergent people tend to gravitate towards each other as they tend to have more in common, hence why your daughter may be friends with her.

Dont apologise. Your comment shows me exactly how I should view you. Judgemental and narrow minded.

I don’t keep focusing on anything expect trying to understand the situation and how to handle it. I dont know what makes a SEN symptom, I’m mo expert, and I had to google POA! Because I am LEARNING! And I have come hear to find ways to manage.

if you want to pick out negatives lines and interpret them to fit your view point, then go right ahead.

OP posts: