To think 10 days off seems a lot in term time?

realistically, how many days of school is a child going to miss because of close family members weddings?

I don't agree with fines. I'd take passports off persistent offenders, though would require a court appearance so people have a chance to plead mitigating circumstances (real not just its cheaper).

One alternative would be for holiday companies to have no discounts for children in term time, though package holidays are not all those taken in term time.

This policy also stops people from seeing family in the uk, going to family weddings etc. It's not just holidays in the sun.

Worth pointing out that, for all MNs love of discussing term time holidays through the prism of Spain, for some families a term time UK break is all they can afford. It should come as no great shock to anyone living in reality that some of them aren't persuaded that this means they should have no holiday at all.

But life isn't fair, an annual holiday to the sun is only recently seen as a 'given' and even then only amongst a particular demographic. Holidays are a single type of cultural, family experience and do not need to be taken annually if your financial circumstances mean that is not possible. There are many more available to us on a much more local and accessible level. If you can't think of an enriching experience, with you capable of being a fully present parent, that you could do on a bog standard Saturday, you should expand your horizons.

We are a high income household with 2 full time working parents. We don't take a full holiday every year but we don't prioritise it or think it's the most valuable use of our family time. Our children know they just go to school each day and we don't undermine ourselves by telling them that it's occasionally optional.

Clearly no one is taking their families abroad for just the weekend, as the price and hassle to get there isn’t worth then only being able to stay one or two nights.

Many, many families cannot take their children away in the holidays as the prices are at least double what they are during term time. When you are paying for 4, 5, 6 etc people rather than just one or two it becomes unaffordable. Also, some of the requests for absence will be to attend family or friends events (such as weddings or big birthday get togethers) which are often organised in term time due to cost.

If we take your example of a week in Lanzarote, then it could look like this:

• child experiences a plane ride
• child experiences local (often tastier and fresher) ingredients and dishes
• child swims every day in the pool and the sea
• child sees geography completely different to the UK. They see in real life a volcanic island which is also an UNESCO site
• Child may go on some day trips around the island and learn about a different culture
• child hears locals speaking in Spanish
• child eats all meals around a table with their family
• Child is prioritised over work, household chores and life admin by parents. They experience family time where the parents can relax and be fully present
• child sees a different environment that they may aspire to live in when they are older. They appreciate there are different jobs on offer around the world other than the ones they see every day in their home town.

etc etc

it is snobby to think that, just because you aren’t on an expensive far flung holiday, the children aren’t absorbing a lot

It's a damaging policy and needs to go.

Oh please. Why do you think this issue has come to prominence recently? Because the cultural zeitgeist is for parents to effectively decide that school is optional and only the best thing for their kids, when it suits them.

You have always had the opportunity to offer your children cultural enrichment - at weekends and in the holidays. A week in Lanzarote in early September does not count. Nor does your centre parcs break - 'because you have to pay for 4 days'. Lets me honest about what this is being used for.

Oh please 🙄 missing a week of school a year doesn’t mean you aren’t appreciative of a countries education system, or that you are going to grow up uneducated yourself.

I would like my children to grow up tolerant of others, with an understanding of the world around them not just the town they grew up in, curious, adaptable, aspirational. Travel helps all of these things, even if it is “just” a family holiday for a week once a year

Very much agree with this. Attendance data partly measures affluence. Families on lower incomes, those with disabled parents or siblings, parents with lower paid less flexible jobs etc have more barriers to getting their kids to school for the other 37 weeks of the year.

I'm not too bothered about fines for holidays, but I do worry about people being fined for having mentally unwell children who are denied access to CAMHS for not being suicidal enough, for having the one family car break down, for the mum being too unwell to take kids in and having no one else she can ask, for LA withdrawing taxis they rely on so they can get their other children to school.

The fines should stand, even as a principal to clearly let the parents know that what they are doing reeks of entitlement.

You are not entitled to an annual holiday. If you can't afford it in the school holidays, look at your own life choices (does the value you place on education play a role here? Perhaps.).

It is no coincidence that people who come from places with poor educational systems/no free state education, ensure that their children value the opportunities that the British state gives them FOR FREE. Education is the route to most good things in life. If you don't impart that to your kids, you are failing them.

Teachers don't give out fines or decide who gets them.

Local authorities do.

5 school days is fine. It won't damage a child's education. The problem is when children then have a lot of sickness or other absence.

As a teacher, I don't really care about parents taking children out of school. But ..... don't expect me to spend my lunchtime catching them up and don't pretend it's an 'educational experience'.

I'd love it if teachers were also allowed to take 5 days holiday in term time too. I've never had a really nice holiday and my children never benefitted from the wonderful term time holidays some of their friends did. That'll never happen though.

I don't think that should be the basis for deciding whether kids should be allowed time off. It's basically shorthand for 'Middle-class children who are lucky enough to be bright, supported at home with their motivation and school work and have good health can have a cheaper posh holiday in term time. Children who aren't 'model students' (likely due to ability or circumstances beyond their contril) or who have time off due to poor health can just suck it up and pay full price for their holidays.'

How would that work? What do you mean by discretion? That parents can just choose to take their dc out of school at their own discretion (i.e. whenever they fancy)? And that individual schools or even individual teachers can just decide whether they feel like letting them, based on whatever criteria they fancy?

Using the word ‘fancy’ makes it seem ridiculous but it’s not-if a school sees parents aren’t taking the piss and are taking them out for one holiday why is it that big a deal? We did it a few years ago (Ireland) and only wouldn’t do it again because they missed the fun stuff- sports day, school tour etc. Five days out only harms if they’ve had a lot of days off over the year and are behind

Down to discretion would be that the headteacher and parents look at the child’s normal attendance, achievement at school, attitude at school, family finances, stage of school, etc etc and judge whether or not an additional 5 (or 10) days off would be ok. This is a much more sensible approach than a blanket “computer says no”.

My children have excellent attendance, none are struggling, and we are conscientious parents who would do extra reading and maths etc while on holiday if required. All my kids are in infant / junior school, none are preparing for exams. We take them out of school one week per year to go on a holiday which they wouldn’t be able to go on if it were limited to term time. It irritates me that as parents we aren’t deemed sensible enough to be the judge of this decision, one that affects MY children

I’m not convinced term time holidays are the issue.
School refusal is a bigger issue, but those in charge would rather address secondary issues rather than opening up the can of worms that is school refusal and lack of support for the growing number of SN kids which leads to falling attendance numbers, increased home education numbers, and arguably increasing poor behaviour in schools.

the problem is that it will become a target, and many families will just take the 10 days because they confuse them with holidays 😂

I wouldn’t mind so much if it was U.K. wide,it’s not,it’s just English parents that get fined,it’s actually quite sad,after this year we won’t be able to take the dc’s on holiday as we could not afford the prices.

knowing that the kids who didn't go on holiday will have their time wasted because the teacher has to play catch up for the ones who did go, I am not against the fines.

It's the same people who moan that kids have too many school holidays too! Funny that 😂

I have a little respect for the parents who say they just fancy a holiday, fair enough. Good for you. The idiots pretending it's "an experience" it's "educational" , " family time" and all that nonsense, na. Unless one of the parents work abroad for long weeks at a time, you can fine them.

I'd rather have a system that uses some discretion than a 'computer says no' dictat.

So you’re basically punishing those who have medical conditions or another reason they don’t have 100% attendance. If one sibling has perfect attendance but the other has missed school to have their appendix out does only one get to go on holiday?

a system which leaves it to individual judgement is actually much more unfair. Having universal rules for these things one way or the other stops any judgement calls

Ten days off authorised was standard practice when my adult son was at school. Before they realised money could be made by fining parents !

Currently, parents are fined for taking children out of school for 10 sessions / 5 days.

however, the OP was correct in that the petition is to allow children to miss up to 10 days of school per year, which would be 20 sessions.

Either way, I agree with the 68% of others in the article’s poll who thinks there should be no fine for taking your children out of school for a holiday. I also agree with OP that the campaign may get better traction if it was reduced to 5 days per annum rather than 10. Missing two weeks of school is quite a lot, although I would still support it over the current rules

So 10 sessions is 5 days?

I think there would need to be criteria but I think, fair or not, we can all agree that there are some model students who have close to 100% attendance, consistently, who won't lose out from a week off or hold up their classes progression.