To think 10 days off seems a lot in term time?

We don't get fined in Scotland however my daughters school moans at us taking her out for 2 weeks every year as we aren't "restricted to certain times due to our job" when actually we are. DH can't take holidays June, July or August. So when are we meant to go on holiday? Or just never bother?

Armed forces? You've lost me. If they are a special case then there's maybe a case for special arrangements. I would have thought if one parent was on a tour of duty and the other not, then the one on duty just isn't available for a holiday.

Ok, I see what you mean about your hours. The point stands though. Different sectors have different times when leave is and isn't available. In your case, you can't go during teaching periods. In other cases, that's the only time they might be able to go. Not sure about the brass neck point though, does this mean people in say the armed forces should be restricted to last minute deals only?

Gosh, I grew up in the 70s and the concept of a term time holiday wasn't something I ever encountered. Holidays were not so expensive then and people had a different attitude to school.

I don't work in a term time role, university teaching and research roles don't work like that. We just can't take leave when the undergrad/postgrad teaching is, ie termtime. The long vacation is not a vacation for staff, just time to focus more on the other aspects of our work.

My point about not taking a termtime holiday in jobs where you had to plan ahead is really that it's double brass neck/entitlement to be thinking that you could both take your child out of school for a holiday and plan to do so well in advance.

Another group who wouldn't take their kids out would be those not wanting to be seen as rule breakers. A lawyer I know most definitely wouldn't and also won't pay builders etc. in cash or without an invoice.

It's very frustrating that headteachers' discretion - and discretion whether or not to refer to the LAs - has now been removed. One of my DDs has Down's syndrome which means peak season holidays can be challenging, stressful for us (she can be a runner) and mean that she's less likely to engage with and enjoy things like ents and mini discos etc. We have taken term time holidays in the past when one headteacher has not authorised (but not referred for a fine) and another did authorise as reasonable adjustments. This year we're going with a couple of holidays in the school holidays. How successful they are will determine whether we go back to term time trips (and taking any fines on the nose) next year.

Mmm I dunno about the last line actually, some of the workplaces with the most restrictive leave requirements are the ones where it's hardest to get the school holidays off. So not sure it's a 'most' there. You perhaps know that in many workplaces, they can only have a certain number off at any one time which makes things difficult if a lot happen to be parents.

There's a huge amount of variation in jobs. Some people are like you and work in term time roles. Others are in seasonal holiday work themselves, and time off in the summer in particular is like gold dust. Some are in the army. The difference is that some of these groups are better accommodated by the requirement to be in school every day than others.

True, plus it can cost a fortune for summer clubs and advance planning

Shame really because our attitude to skiving off work is completely different.

On MN we seem to have far more supporters of holidays in term time. Quite a lot of jobs don't accommodate this approach. I work for a uni, so even some 1/2 term hols are not possible. Also, there are a lot of jobs where people need to plan leave months in advance. Most of them wouldn't be able to do a term time holiday either.

I've seen several sad face Disney holiday fines. They wanted to go to Disney (usa) - fair enough, it's a popular/exciting destination - but couldn't afford to go in the holidays.
But it's not as if they couldn't afford to go anywhere at all. Going to Disney at any time of year requires a fairly hefty budget, so quite possibly have gone somewhere else or had very budget holidays for several years, to save up.
I also know people who take term time holidays to go skiing which is just one of several holidays the kids have per year, although the others are in the school holidays.

I do get it if a workplace doesn't allow AL during school holiday period (in the same way a teacher can't take a term time holiday) but for those who have a choice, if they are working parents, doesn't that just leave more childcare cover over the school holidays if you've taken a holiday in term time?

I think the bollocks people tell themselves "it's a cultural experience" deserve the fine. Anyone who spouts that should just receive automatically the max penalty. You can get a very cheap cultural experience during school holidays, we are on one now in southern Europe at £150pp for a week (flights and accommodation) it's not warm enough to sit around a pool drinking but we are here to see the country so that doesn't bother us. We also have a trip across 3 different countries booked for Easter at £250pp including two days in a luxury spa hotel, the rest of the time sightseeing etc. Those of us genuinely paying for the cultural experience are not paying over the odds to sit on a sunlounger in Spain complaining about the quality of the bacon in the fry up.

Its bollocks. You don't see kids taken out for a camping trip in Wales in June.

Erm, yes you do. My neighbours did just that last year, albeit it was a caravan not a tent. Go and spend some time at a Haven or Parkdean during June or July. It will not be empty of school aged kids!

The problem with using discretion is that if the Smiths find out that the Jones got a week off with no fines, and they got fined. The Smiths would be complaining about it loudly to the head teacher.

Which is no real answer at all, since there's not a chance in hell of it happening.

I suspect because there'd be a lot of "funerals" to attend if it was not fineable.

Schools like to tell you they have no flexibility which is the issue. I got fined for 1 day and DC’s attendance was 100% up until that point. I happily paid as in total travelling a day later cost £4k more and we got an extra day with family.

There already is a system which uses some discretion. Headteachers are allowed to authorise termtime leave in 'exceptional circumstances'. Mine had 2 days termtime leave authorised to attend a wedding abroad (wedding on the Saturday, rehearsal on Friday and my DD's were flower girls) where it had to be brought forward due to grooms mum not having long to live. I would have taken them whether authorised or not, but I appreciated the heads compassion in authorising it.

I don't agree with fines at all. It's absurd parents don't have the autonomy to take their own kids out of school for a holiday.

How on earth do you think head teachers have time to collect all that information and make a decision for every parent that wants to take their child on a term time holiday?

As a teacher, I don't agree with fines and think it should be up to the parent. However there should be no expectation that a teacher will provide work or contribute to your child catching up.

Well, exactly, but you are accused of snobbery if you say that.

I also agree that it's social media driving a lot of this. Children do not need a (or multiple) foreign holidays each year. And, as with everything else in the world at the moment people just cry 'privilege' for people who only take holidays outside of term time, so they can retain a sense of victimhood whilst lying in the sun and drinking cocktails when their kids should be at school.

If we went to a family wedding it would be at least a week as we are immigrants so it would be a couple days of travel for us.

We took the kids out for two weeks once - went back to see our families for 4 weeks after Covid. My children hadn't seen their grandparents for 3 years and we decided it was a priority. We had to get permission from the council with a support letter from the headteacher. Kids were 5 and 8 at the time. I'd never do this length now that my daughter is in high school but we have pulled them for a day to get startlingly cheaper flights a few times over the last 8 years. Fridays are half days here so they miss minimal school and we'd only do it once a year max.

I'm in Scotland so no fines but you need permission. Not entirely sure what happens without as I'm an intense rule follower!

If you come from a culture where every distant acquaintance is invited and the celebration goes for days, quite a lot!

Personally I think allowing time away is difficult because you also don’t know if your child will be unwell for a few days here and there in the same school year. My oldest had 100% attendance in reception but had a bunch of things early in year one (chest infection, vomiting etc) that went round the class. Not her fault and totally normal illnesses. So she had 4 days across those things and she had some hospital appointments.

So I support the rules as they are because you never know when your child will be poorly. Holidays on top can really add up. Plus agree that if you had ten days that would be the goal for some, then sickness on top.

we only have one uk holiday for a week a year but try to have time off in the holidays all together just at home.

That's how it works in many places in the world.