Page 7 | I never thought I'd see the US aligning with Russia

VolcanoJapan · 2025-02-19T10:27:26+00:00

The US appear under Trump to be aligning with Putin and Russia more and more. What was until recently referred to as our greatest allie is moving close to Russia in many ways, carving up Ukraine for Russia, trade deals with Russia. It's bizarre. Aibu to think it's bizarre or was this always coming when trump was elected?

AnonymousBleep · 20/02/2025 07:58

World not road!

AnonymousBleep · 20/02/2025 07:58

The reality is that Trump's USA is a threat to the UK. As someone said above, you've got Putin, Trump and Xi carving up the road. The big boys - smaller countries like ours have been dependent on the protection of a larger power for obvious reasons. We are a small country. We simply don't have the capability to stand up against a much larger attacker. We think we do because of WW2 but it was the USA that swung that for us. Leaving the EU was a mistake for this reason -it's imperfect because it's lots of small countries who often can't agree but still sensible to be part of a larger force. Now we're not and NATO is looking rocky too thanks to Trump. Him teaming up with Putin is bad news. Worrying times indeed.

Lambington · 20/02/2025 07:56

Its not that surprising. The FBI found Trump's first presidency to be the result of Russian Electoral interference (Trump denied and distracted and the media dropped it).

He's had buisiness dealings in Russia for decades.

Putin is widely known to have compromat on Trump (videos in a Russian hotel room...)

His first wife Ivana was investigated in 1989 by the FBI's counterintelligence division into allegations connected to her native Czechoslovakia.

His current wife is Slovenian (Yugoslavia when she was born) and I admit - this is my own speculation - she doesn't seem to like him for him. She usually comes across as more of a "handler" than a spouse.

He's been telling us who he is for years.

EasternStandard · 20/02/2025 07:42

Many of the states he won comprise far more land than people.

They still are crucial clearly, hence focus on swing states in the run up to the election

Blueskieslookingatme · 20/02/2025 01:05

Futb · 19/02/2025 13:18

We won a hell of a lot more seats that anyone would have thought. He won more swing states than anyone could have imagined so it was a big win whether you agree or not.

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Many of the states he won comprise far more land than people.
It's the prairies that swung it for the orange turd.

wholettheturnipsburn · 20/02/2025 00:59

@AlexandrinaH How on earth could you NOT come to that conclusion?

Notaflippinclue · 20/02/2025 00:50

Very interesting discussion on BBC tonight - the world has changed - remember Yalta? but now it's Trump Putin and Xi carving up the world

TooBigForMyBoots · 20/02/2025 00:43

AlexandrinaH · 20/02/2025 00:40

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?

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Well we are the enemy now. Us, the EU, the rest of Europe, Ukraine and possibly NATO.

AlexandrinaH · 20/02/2025 00:40

wholettheturnipsburn · 20/02/2025 00:15

Isn't it a veiled threat toward us?

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How on earth do you come to that conclusion?

wholettheturnipsburn · 20/02/2025 00:15

AlternativeView · 19/02/2025 23:36

*if we ever came to war which it won't no body would ever come close to us "

Trumps closing line.

If I was putin I would take that as a veiled threat

Isn't it a veiled threat toward us?

ForestAtTheSea · 19/02/2025 23:50

AlternativeView · 19/02/2025 23:40

Forest, very noble but do they have teeth.
All very well forming a new coalition but has it got any meaningful arms

NATO contract is still in place. And as others pointed out, Europe as a whole contributed a substantial amount of support to Ukraine.

However, it is probably clear that actually no-one (except Putin) wants an escalation, and even to him, wrecked states only cost money; it doesn't make sense. Russian economy is not as peachy, either. We don't really know what the Russian population thinks because there is fear to speak out and a lot of misinformation and censure. The negotiators will have to find a solution.

TooBigForMyBoots · 19/02/2025 23:43

AlternativeView · 19/02/2025 23:36

*if we ever came to war which it won't no body would ever come close to us "

Trumps closing line.

If I was putin I would take that as a veiled threat

Oh please. Trump is Putin's puppet. This is no threat, veiled or otherwise.🙄

AlternativeView · 19/02/2025 23:40

Forest, very noble but do they have teeth.
All very well forming a new coalition but has it got any meaningful arms

AlternativeView · 19/02/2025 23:36

*if we ever came to war which it won't no body would ever come close to us "

Trumps closing line.

If I was putin I would take that as a veiled threat

ForestAtTheSea · 19/02/2025 23:29

@100A
Yes, especially the mass firing of so many agencies, that would cause a raise in jobseekers, not what the average person wants.
And some far-right potential voters don't want to pay for Ukraine and want to get back cheap energy from Russia, but they wouldn't want to have Russia lurking at the border, either. I think that plenty of people will reconsider.

About what European leaders are doing in the face of total lies, Politico has some reports:
https://www.politico.eu/article/west-crisis-coalition-donald-trump-volodymyr-zelenskyy-emmanuel-macron-ukraine-war/

100A · 19/02/2025 23:19

Yes I agree @ForestAtTheSea . By modelling how quickly Far Right governments can go from very bad to deranged farce, very quickly, it may well finish off any public support for those with Far Right aspirations in Europe.

ForestAtTheSea · 19/02/2025 21:37

DancefloorAcrobatics · 19/02/2025 11:44

It will be interesting to see how far this is going to divide Europe.

At the moment it looks like a united front, but the cracks are showing.
The results of the German election and subsequent policies will be a good starting point for observations of what is to come.

Europe has been relatively stable over the last 80 years, I believe this is going to change. Trump & Putin will play a big part in this.

If the next days are going to be as crazy as the past few days, the German elections might not pan out as Musk & Co. intended, because even the person most living under a rock sees how their voting of far right could pan out for them - very badly. They are giving a preview of their worst self and it will motivate people to reconsider whether a protest vote is worth the self-destruction.

ForestAtTheSea · 19/02/2025 21:30

Namechangey23 · 19/02/2025 20:47

Putin IS a very very real threat to the US, he has as many if not more nuclear weapons than the US and if he teams up with China, possible UAE and North Korea he will certainly have more and be the new global superpower. China, UAE, North Korea and Russia all hate USA and see it as the epitome of 'the west'.

Why do you think Trump is terrified of him? So terrified he is using his exact wording and doing exactly what he wants.. Putin wants to land grab Ukraine. Trump is letting him! He's pretending it's about not funding the war. Truth is it's because Trump has made a deal with Putin to get him in power a second time in return for handing over Ukraine. You'd have to be blind not to see this! There is evidence from the previous election too which was swept under the carpet but it's there if you look.

Trump is MAKING RUSSIA GREAT AGAIN

Stick your fingers in your ears and go la la la but this is what's happening..

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Trump can also learn from Putin's example of "good democracy".
Those shouting "dictator" at Ukraine for not holding elections in war times with insecure borders, half the population abroad and the other on the battlefield and fled to different areas than their hometowns could compare this situation with Putin's reign.
He was first elected in 2000 (!) and after two terms could not be re-elected. He switched roles with his prime minister for a while, who kept his seat warm and acted in his interest, and then return again in 2012, though many thought already at this time that the presidency wasn't quite squeaky clean. In essence, Putin has been president for 25 years and there were many doubts about the democratic nature of these elections.
Who is the dictator here?

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/02/2025 21:07

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 18:07

You would have to change the Constitution, which is hella difficult, for a good reason. To request a change, either 3/4 of Congress must agree or 3/4 of the state governments must agree to propose it.

Once it has been proposed, ratification by 3/4 of the states is necessary through ratification conventions, which each state must agree first to take up and then to vote on. IOW, even if 3/4 of the states agree on the change, all 50 states must first agree to hold ratification conventions. So any state can, in effect, stop it. Also, all proposed changes are on a time clock, so all of this has to happen in a timely manner or the proposal is tabled.

By design, it is difficult bordering on impossible to change the Constitution. The US is a deeply divided country and there is exactly 0% chance that a change to presidential term limits ever gets off the ground.

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Thanks for putting me straight on that I knew it was tricky but admittedly didn’t know all the facts! Hopefully this is very unlikely then

Porcuporpoise · 19/02/2025 20:59

In what way have the EU treated us with disdain @IMustDoMoreExercise? Was it when we left the club but still wanted to use the facilities?

sleepwouldbenice · 19/02/2025 20:53

Porcuporpoise · 19/02/2025 19:54

Most countries fight out of self-interest @sleepwouldbenice . We're not supporting Ukraine because we love Ukrainians, or because "its the right thing to do" regardless whether we do or it is. We're supporting them because we want them to fight the Russians in Ukraine so we don't have to fight them in Latvia or Lithuania or Estonia or Scandinavia.

Edited

Yes but there are lines

sleepwouldbenice · 19/02/2025 20:51

InWalksBarberalla · 19/02/2025 20:04

To be fair most of this applies to the UK as well.

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Agreed. Depressing though that is!

Namechangey23 · 19/02/2025 20:47

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:40

Why does it matter what his reasoning is? He's the Commander in Chief and all military power is vested in him. He decides. Congress can stop a president from going to war, but it can't stop a president from ending a war, and without massive European funding and European boots on the ground the war is over. The US has sent billions in money and materiel, much of which Zelensky either can't or won't account for. Billions are missing, yet we Americans are baddies because we won't just send billions more, however much Ukraine asks. Well this American taxpayer says fuck that to hell and back. We're done shelling out to European assholes who always want more, more, more.

Putin is not a threat to the US. Read that over and over until you understand it. He's not a threat to us at all. Putin isn't going to do a damn thing to harm us. He's a threat to you, so act like adults and deal with YOUR threat.

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Putin IS a very very real threat to the US, he has as many if not more nuclear weapons than the US and if he teams up with China, possible UAE and North Korea he will certainly have more and be the new global superpower. China, UAE, North Korea and Russia all hate USA and see it as the epitome of 'the west'.

Why do you think Trump is terrified of him? So terrified he is using his exact wording and doing exactly what he wants.. Putin wants to land grab Ukraine. Trump is letting him! He's pretending it's about not funding the war. Truth is it's because Trump has made a deal with Putin to get him in power a second time in return for handing over Ukraine. You'd have to be blind not to see this! There is evidence from the previous election too which was swept under the carpet but it's there if you look.

Trump is MAKING RUSSIA GREAT AGAIN

Stick your fingers in your ears and go la la la but this is what's happening..

Poorkids · 19/02/2025 20:30

If

Namechangey23 · 19/02/2025 20:23

IMustDoMoreExercise · 19/02/2025 18:02

I know that we are going to be caught in the crossfire but I am pleased that Trump is not sucking up to the EU like Obama and Biden did.

Biden actively hated us as did the EU bc of Brexit.

The EU are getting their just desserts. I hope that the EU enjoy being treated just how they treated us, with disdain.

United we stand. Divided we fall.