I never thought I'd see the US aligning with Russia

Not much support so far only Macron

And a pissed off Scholz. Not sure CDU will get enough support post GE and others not keen.

All still saying US is needed or it's not happening. And Russia have said no way so why a yes after that

It looks like posturing at this point for political gain.

I prefer the prepare angle based on funds. If the US agrees to that then great.

Which is what we have now. Either you believe the Russians want peace or you don't.

I'm talking about a military deployment post a peace deal. Ukraine is still a sovereign country but can permit peacekeeping forces to enter its territory.

Where the Russians draw the line is something else.

Russia undermines democracies and other countries by attacks on its infrastructure both physical and virtual. This happens even in peace time.

The Starmer plan proposes protection of that infrastructure post a deal.

I don't think the UK should carry this alone; but let's get real here, if Russia did make an actual military grade attack rather than its usual sabotage then that is a war.

And what's stopping them going back in?

Wouldn't that scenario necessitate Russian troops being in Ukraine @EasternStandard?

I don't think any deal is going to be based on Russia having military access. The peacekeeping comes after the deal which means Russia leaves.

What happens if fighting starts with those troops in place?

Also seems that the EU is moving to sanction Moscow shadow shipping. Good.

This proposal for peacekeepers in Ukraine is quite critical. The Russians will oppose it because they will not want any oversight of Ukraine's ports and infrastructure which they want to manipulate and attack.

Interesting that this is what Starmer proposes. Smart. No troops on the line but the vital infrastructure of Ukraine protected and sanctions maintained. A good plan which the Russians will hate.

Absolutely @bombastix

Interesting that the EU has just opened talks with the US on gas access. It hasn't sanctioned Russian gas yesterday.

There is a deal being done here on energy in the background.

However, expanding sanctions during any ceasefire talks is a good idea for Europe.

We don't want an economically strong Russia armed to the teeth on our borders.

UNLESS Europe pulls itself together and present a solid united front.

We really must keep Reform out of the government. They're on the other side.

Anyway let's assume that one of the strengths of the EU will come into play. That is rewriting sanctions on the grounds of National security which gives you a free hand (it's what Trump does btw).

Europe should start expanding its sanctions. I note it made more on Russia on Tuesday. The EU is a diplomatic dwarf. But economically it has a lot of skill to make Russia poor. And it would be proportionate given what Putin has done and continues to do. Russia is not Europe's friend. Nor is Trump, to judge from yesterday

As with pretty much all conflicts since the end of WWII, this whole thing has to do with energy.
Trump wants Greenland and is buttering up Putin to get better access to the warming Arctic waters. Russia owns a hell of a lot of space up there...
THAT's what he cares about. Sod democracies and alliances. What worries me is that beyond the crazy ideological talk, he might in fact deeply fear China doing the same on the sly (ie buying up resources around the world) and for all his climate denial talk, he must know there's trouble ahead.
So he's basically trying to pull a Titanic on Europe - remember when the first class passengers all fuck off into half-empty lifeboats and the plebs are left to drown? That's us and much of the Global South...

I expect it was opposed by the US.

If they change on this then great. Not sure what the likelihood of that occurring is but much prefer spending on preparation than other flimsier and riskier suggestions.

@EasternStandard that has been on the table for months! Johnson would have known it from his time as PM. I expect it was opposed by the US. But if Trump is going to do this, then he is not going to be in charge of frozen assets and sanctions.

Both the EU and the UK have a lot of sanctioned Russian assets. It is a clear source of military spending.

And it would weaken Russia greatly. They want it back.

Boris Johnson is talking about unlocking assets.

First I've heard of that proposal. I'd be wary of anything that ups the ante with US

We currently have a slim and unpredictable path with them, but it's not out and out enemy and combined Russia and US v Europe

I'd rather avoid the latter. People need to think stuff through.

The temptation is to say it's just Ukraine.

But the UK and the US have been sharing security and military intelligence and policy for decades. Closer than NATO. Much closer. Trump is now in charge of how that works to a great extent.

All the glee about Vance and Trump is for US domestic consumption as the US begins to isolate. He wants to disarm and cut Pentagon funding. The signals are there.

European countries (not the EU) need their own security policy. And the EU should buckle up and create rules to deal with the Putin friendly governments it is going to get. Because it is going to get them soon,

Ukraine is the immediate issue.

But those of us in the country should think carefully about Trump being in charge of US security policy. In aligning with Russia, the US can be an effective threat.

Trump is part of NATO. If he really is aligning with Russia this country is in huge trouble. All of us.

Europe standing together is powerful.

Even Zelenskyy has said US is needed to win.

European leaders know they are need the US too and won't do a small amount of troops without their backing.

There's not much point in proposing it as even if the US says sure we'll be there it can change the next day.

Personally I would like the EU to drop its procurement rules, seize Russian assets, and start spending like now on arms. The faster this is done the better. Trump would also get all the security briefings from NATO. After yesterday that would seem to be worrying, along with our security links.

If we have a war, we will be doing it anyway. The US can play Footsie with Russia. But Europe can't do so.

The UK has built its post war security system with the US. We need to consider a world where that doesn't happen. The US is ambivalent to the UK and Europe at best. Look at the language of their politicians and their voters.

Doubtful anyone can claim no collusion with Russia. Trump is clearly their pawn. His language yesterday was delusional but true to form, he hopes the more he repeats it, the easier it will be swallowed by those around him. We knew this would happen though, as soon as it was confirmed his people had elected him again. So, we all watch together as the madness continues to unfold.

@Coolasfeck - I think Europe got the message! America is now an unreliable ally; it won't be fulfilling its old role multilaterally. The Trump support I have seen on MN are really keen on this, they like what he does.

The US is not that reliable. The U.K. must make its own plans. We still have some advantages but this "special relationship" is dead. I'm sure we will still try and use it. But to rely on it is mad.

Whether Trump is clever or foolish does not matter. He is volatile. And good allies are not that.