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I never thought I'd see the US aligning with Russia

388 replies

VolcanoJapan · 19/02/2025 10:27

The US appear under Trump to be aligning with Putin and Russia more and more.

What was until recently referred to as our greatest allie is moving close to Russia in many ways, carving up Ukraine for Russia, trade deals with Russia.

It's bizarre.

Aibu to think it's bizarre or was this always coming when trump was elected?

OP posts:
AnSolas · 19/02/2025 18:13

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:31

The US held an election during the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln held the election, even though he believed he would lose, because democracies hold elections. At this point, Zelensky is a dictator and the US government is responding accordingly.

He fails the is a dictator test while Russia is engaged in occupation of Ukraine.
So the correct term would be acting like a dictator

How did Abraham Lincoln hold the election in Confederacy states during the US civil war?

Right some other questions:

What does the Ukraine's constution or legislation say about post invasion election cycles?

Where is the current front line?

Have the Ukraine regained stable control of all Sovereign lands?

Has Ukraine a system on allowing war displaced citizens to replace ID?

How would Ukraine organise its election district to account for the displaced citizens who have fled from combat zones?

Has Ukraine a system on allowing war displaced citizens outside the country to vote?

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 18:13

username299 · 19/02/2025 14:51

Impeachment seems like the obvious option but I'm not sure how feasible that is currently.

Impeachment does not remove a president. Impeachment is the same as an indictment and is done by the House of Representatives. Removal must be done by the Senate. The Senate has never removed a president.

ForestAtTheSea · 19/02/2025 18:11

@100A:
Vance's speech in Munich was astonishing, but not in a good way. More like someone talking about primary school maths and expecting to pass A-Levels with this knowledge.
It was completely off-topic, and with thinking that these comparatively miniscule examples would enrage Europeans like they maybe do for Fox News listeners. Absolutely no strategic vision and no understanding of history, as if things happen in a vacuum and not in the context of the past 100 years. His upset about right-wing parties not being admitted also showed clearly that he hasn't got a clue about German history at all.

AnonymousBleep · 19/02/2025 18:10

Notaflippinclue · 19/02/2025 18:06

A million casualties - how long must this fruitless war go on.

A million casualties where? The casualties from the Ukraine war are 14,200 to 14,400, according to the UN.

PerkingFaintly · 19/02/2025 18:09

Notaflippinclue · 19/02/2025 18:06

A million casualties - how long must this fruitless war go on.

Yes, it's awful.

Perhaps Putin could withdraw his troops from Ukraine, so that they stop dying and stop killing people.

Oh, and he could clear up the vast tracts of Ukraine which he has landmined, so that agricultural land which feeds the world is safe to plant again.

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 18:07

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/02/2025 12:37

My understand is that to change the actual constitution including the 4 year rule you need two thirds of both houses to agree. It doesn’t look likely that the republicans can get two thirds of the seats in both houses. At least not anytime soon.

You would have to change the Constitution, which is hella difficult, for a good reason. To request a change, either 3/4 of Congress must agree or 3/4 of the state governments must agree to propose it.

Once it has been proposed, ratification by 3/4 of the states is necessary through ratification conventions, which each state must agree first to take up and then to vote on. IOW, even if 3/4 of the states agree on the change, all 50 states must first agree to hold ratification conventions. So any state can, in effect, stop it. Also, all proposed changes are on a time clock, so all of this has to happen in a timely manner or the proposal is tabled.

By design, it is difficult bordering on impossible to change the Constitution. The US is a deeply divided country and there is exactly 0% chance that a change to presidential term limits ever gets off the ground.

Notaflippinclue · 19/02/2025 18:06

A million casualties - how long must this fruitless war go on.

IncessantNameChanger · 19/02/2025 18:04

It's worrying buy it's what Americans want. A lot of people agree with him and his ramblings and that's what scares me more.

Is gaslighting of epic proportions. I can't watch the news. So much de evolution of our species

IMustDoMoreExercise · 19/02/2025 18:02

I know that we are going to be caught in the crossfire but I am pleased that Trump is not sucking up to the EU like Obama and Biden did.

Biden actively hated us as did the EU bc of Brexit.

The EU are getting their just desserts. I hope that the EU enjoy being treated just how they treated us, with disdain.

AnonymousBleep · 19/02/2025 18:01

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:40

Why does it matter what his reasoning is? He's the Commander in Chief and all military power is vested in him. He decides. Congress can stop a president from going to war, but it can't stop a president from ending a war, and without massive European funding and European boots on the ground the war is over. The US has sent billions in money and materiel, much of which Zelensky either can't or won't account for. Billions are missing, yet we Americans are baddies because we won't just send billions more, however much Ukraine asks. Well this American taxpayer says fuck that to hell and back. We're done shelling out to European assholes who always want more, more, more.

Putin is not a threat to the US. Read that over and over until you understand it. He's not a threat to us at all. Putin isn't going to do a damn thing to harm us. He's a threat to you, so act like adults and deal with YOUR threat.

Why on earth do you think Putin won't do a thing to harm the USA? Have you forgotten the Cold War? You can be sure he hasn't. Do you think you're....friends? That's funny.

Alaimo · 19/02/2025 18:01

sleepwouldbenice · 19/02/2025 17:47

Exactly. Sick of people not understanding numbers and proportions

It's also not even about the proportions. If you look at the EU as a whole (so contribution of EU institutions + contributions from individual nations) it exceeds the US contribution by quite a bit.

And all that money listed as military aid? Countries need to replace the material and tech they sent overseas. Who produces missiles, fighter planes, etc? Mostly the US/US companies. The provision of military aid is a cost, but also comes with quite some economic benefit for the US.

sleepwouldbenice · 19/02/2025 18:00

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:40

Why does it matter what his reasoning is? He's the Commander in Chief and all military power is vested in him. He decides. Congress can stop a president from going to war, but it can't stop a president from ending a war, and without massive European funding and European boots on the ground the war is over. The US has sent billions in money and materiel, much of which Zelensky either can't or won't account for. Billions are missing, yet we Americans are baddies because we won't just send billions more, however much Ukraine asks. Well this American taxpayer says fuck that to hell and back. We're done shelling out to European assholes who always want more, more, more.

Putin is not a threat to the US. Read that over and over until you understand it. He's not a threat to us at all. Putin isn't going to do a damn thing to harm us. He's a threat to you, so act like adults and deal with YOUR threat.

Read this over and over

Maga is never going to happen. Your country will implode on itself.

It really doesn't have the might it thinks it does. Your debt and backward and insular approach will weaken you, only the rich will get richer. From trade to the world stage, you are shrinking, you're not even the best with tech any more. You've been in decline for years you just dont understand that. Your tax dollar will just decline

You voted for it. Enjoy

MojoMoon · 19/02/2025 17:59

100A · 19/02/2025 17:56

So now Trump has directly referred to VZ as a 'dictator.'

How does he expect elections to happen in a nation whose borders are unstable and constantly changing?

Trump says VZ should never have started the war. WTF! What were Ukrainians supposed to do - wave cheerily to the Russian tanks as they rolled in?

A different subject entirely - but BBC were reporting that the Trump administration have today contacted Romanian authorities to get the charges against, of all people, Andrew Tate, dropped! The man is a people trafficker and vile, dangerous misogynist. Didn't he also convert to Islam, or has he dropped that now?

What was that crap Vance came out with in Munich about Scottish people not being allowed to pray in their own homes?

Their agenda is clear on so many fronts. It's diabolical and unbelievable.

If they think they are going to bring their anti-abortion, fundamentalist Christian ideology over to Europe they can go to hell.

Nobody, apart from MAGA, is going to fall for this Ukrainian dictatorship spin. Nobody. How dare they.

If they get away with the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the world will not forget.

Edited

It's all great distraction from whatever he is up to under the hood of the US government I suspect

Insult the Europeans who aren't a threat to him, whip up his idiot fan base about whatever conspiracy he wants (that Ukraine arms Mexican drug gangs for example) and have everyone ignore whatever he is really up to at home.

username299 · 19/02/2025 17:59

TooBigForMyBoots · 19/02/2025 17:54

Last night, Carla Sands said the UK has locked up more people for their views than Putin has. Victoria Derbyshire's face was a picture.🙈

Such are the lies being believed and repeated in the US. And we are the enemy now.

That's what an abuser does; they isolate and gaslight you so you become dependent on them and don't know what to believe.

It's the fascist playbook; everyone's an enemy.

I love Big Brother.

AnonymousBleep · 19/02/2025 17:57

HRTQueen · 19/02/2025 17:33

To who he looks weak Europeans

The world out of Europe is not overly interested in a small part of Europe

Israel and Gaza is a different matter the US do not want to be supporting both as its incredibly costly, far more money involved in the ME and the west needs to have a strong safe western alliance there

You really think the majority of Americans are happy to spend billions of dollars supporting Ukraine when so many are struggling with nothing in return

Of course Trump doesn't care the argument about giving away part of the US doesn't come into it that would be putting the question to someone who is reasonable Trump isn't

Of course the rest of the world will be interested in Russia massively expanding its territories and power. They're not so stupid to think it won't eventually affect them.

MojoMoon · 19/02/2025 17:57

Chiseltip · 19/02/2025 17:22

The war is lost, our money was just wasted some anonymous firefight. Our money achieved nothing. We didn't stop the Russian advance, the US did. And no matter how much money we sent there, without US support it would still achieve nothing. Ukraine is running out of soldiers. Putin knows it, the US knows it, Ukraine knows it.

Putin is laughing at how weak the West is, how even the mighty US of A wants out of this mess. Putin has got exactly what he wanted. He has won.

Our 12 billion may has well have been pissed up against a wall.

Putin thought he could march into Kyiv, depose the government and put a puppet in place to run the country to his orders as in Belarus.

He did not succeed.
He has not won the war that he wanted.
The vast majority of Ukraine is still a remarkably well functioning (given the years of war) country outside the occupied parts now much more united in their hatred of Russia and desire to join Europe.

Ukraine has not lost this war. It stopped Putin achieving his goals. At best, he is going to get some parts of eastern Ukraine that have been flattened and large amounts of the population have fled.

I know it's not what Ukraine wanted but if that is the outcome (that they lose Donbas etc), then Europe and the UK should focus on ensuring the rest of the country and rebuild and wrapping them closer to Europe through military support to defend them against future attacks, through encouraging trade and economic links and through education and cultural links (university exchanges etc).

And Trump can duck off.

100A · 19/02/2025 17:56

So now Trump has directly referred to VZ as a 'dictator.'

How does he expect elections to happen in a nation whose borders are unstable and constantly changing?

Trump says VZ should never have started the war. WTF! What were Ukrainians supposed to do - wave cheerily to the Russian tanks as they rolled in?

A different subject entirely - but BBC were reporting that the Trump administration have today contacted Romanian authorities to get the charges against, of all people, Andrew Tate, dropped! The man is a people trafficker and vile, dangerous misogynist. Didn't he also convert to Islam, or has he dropped that now?

What was that crap Vance came out with in Munich about Scottish people not being allowed to pray in their own homes?

Their agenda is clear on so many fronts. It's diabolical and unbelievable.

If they think they are going to bring their anti-abortion, fundamentalist Christian ideology over to Europe they can go to hell.

Nobody, apart from MAGA, is going to fall for this Ukrainian dictatorship spin. Nobody. How dare they.

If they get away with the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the world will not forget.

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:54

JHound · 19/02/2025 11:50

No but the voting data shows which groups majority went for him and which did not….

67% of Native Americans voted for Trump. Trump also won first time voters. Trump won hispanic men by 10 points. He also unsurprisingly won white men and white women, but interestingly he won 13% more black men in 2024 than he did in 2016.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/

TooBigForMyBoots · 19/02/2025 17:54

username299 · 19/02/2025 17:45

Do you believe everything you hear? Trump says someone is a dictator so you repeat it like a parrot?

Putin is a dictator - why doesn't the US act accordingly?

Last night, Carla Sands said the UK has locked up more people for their views than Putin has. Victoria Derbyshire's face was a picture.🙈

Such are the lies being believed and repeated in the US. And we are the enemy now.

sleepwouldbenice · 19/02/2025 17:49

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:31

The US held an election during the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln held the election, even though he believed he would lose, because democracies hold elections. At this point, Zelensky is a dictator and the US government is responding accordingly.

Wow, really sucked in by the maga misinformation aren't you

ForestAtTheSea · 19/02/2025 17:48

As for that gigantic ocean between US and Europe, maybe someone should look at the other end of the map to realize how close Alaska with all its minerals and raw materials is to Russia. Maybe Putin wants to renegotiate that sale at some point, too.

sleepwouldbenice · 19/02/2025 17:47

JHound · 19/02/2025 17:18

And what is that as a proportion of their GDP?

It’s stupid comparing raw numbers with vastly different GDP and economies.

Exactly. Sick of people not understanding numbers and proportions

username299 · 19/02/2025 17:45

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:31

The US held an election during the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln held the election, even though he believed he would lose, because democracies hold elections. At this point, Zelensky is a dictator and the US government is responding accordingly.

Do you believe everything you hear? Trump says someone is a dictator so you repeat it like a parrot?

Putin is a dictator - why doesn't the US act accordingly?

ForestAtTheSea · 19/02/2025 17:43

ExtraOnions · 19/02/2025 17:11

Achieved fuck all ??? What would you prefer, Russia to have marched through, and then carried on ? Off into the Baltic Countries, and then head off to Central Europe.. because that’s what we are talking about. Putin is an expansionist Imperialist, and he wants to march into various other countries… and the line has to be protected somewhere.

Russia was always unhappy about losing some countries that were part of the Soviet Union and when the country regained military strength after the 2000s, it set on getting back what they "lost". Many countries like Kazakhstan have governernments which closely align with Russia. The countries that moved too far away from Russia are the ones which are the target.
Remember the Soviet influence included the three Baltic Countries, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Eastern Germany and many more.

Europe has to find its own position within Russia and USA negotiating without them, and fast.

LifeExperience · 19/02/2025 17:40

UninterestingFirstPost · 19/02/2025 11:23

His “reasoning” is a fictional account of how the conflict started that seems to have been written by the Kremlin. I don’t think it’s normal service in terms of a new government setting out its priorities and the sooner we recognise that, the sooner we can stop it happening elsewhere.

Why does it matter what his reasoning is? He's the Commander in Chief and all military power is vested in him. He decides. Congress can stop a president from going to war, but it can't stop a president from ending a war, and without massive European funding and European boots on the ground the war is over. The US has sent billions in money and materiel, much of which Zelensky either can't or won't account for. Billions are missing, yet we Americans are baddies because we won't just send billions more, however much Ukraine asks. Well this American taxpayer says fuck that to hell and back. We're done shelling out to European assholes who always want more, more, more.

Putin is not a threat to the US. Read that over and over until you understand it. He's not a threat to us at all. Putin isn't going to do a damn thing to harm us. He's a threat to you, so act like adults and deal with YOUR threat.

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