To think people who live paycheck to paycheck on high salaries are just bad with money?

Exactly

outer London, tiny 2 bed houses on my street cost 2k a month to rent

if you are taking home £3k it doesn’t leave a lot of room in the budget after utilities, food, running a car/train etc to get to work

never been eligible for benefits myself snd would really struggle long term to make it work on that

If you earned half that, and had a couple of kids, you would likely be entitled to a very generous UC top up (£600 per month according to a generic calculation I just did).

It’s the squeezed middle, innit. Worst salary band to be in is £50-60k imho. Better earn less and keep child benefit surely.

That and cost of housing. Some of the mortgages and monthly rent payment on this thread are eye watering. It used to be possible to stick to the rule of thumb of no more than 30% of salary on housing costs but those days seem long gone. In fact, housing and childcare are broken systems aren’t they. Perhaps Mumsnet needs to gather and lobby on the latter….

I earn just over half of that, if I struggle then it's entirely my own fault and I need to stop spending it all on Sky TV and luxuries I can't afford and I need to move to a cheaper area, regardless of anything else, not have children I can't afford and stop buying take away coffees, cut my cloth accordingly and take responsibility for myself and my poor choices. And if I can't or don't want to do any of the above, I'm making excuses.

Struggle on twice that and it's all not fair and because of the cost of living and never a result of choices made, and the reasons for not moving or anything else suggested are never excuses, but reasons.

Funny that.

Yes, people on high incomes who can’t save are bad with money because if they wanted to save they could make choices that allow them to do so

🙄

Those on low incomes haven’t got choices as their necessities take everything.

Why can't they make the choice to get a better job?

But (if you don’t mind my asking and feel free not to respond), do you receive a UC top up or other benefits?

Depends where you live too. I earn top 5 percent in the country, but my rent is over 50% of my salary. My outgoings are huge. A smaller property wouldnt save that much as ita too expensive here. I can't move due to schools. I spend a fortune on childcare, holiday clubs, tutor, music lessons. I buy myself nothing and shop in lidl.

£50k is double my income as a single parent. I’d manage fine on that, it would be amazing to have so much to save. Yes, people on high incomes who can’t save are bad with money because if they wanted to save they could make choices that allow them to do so. Those on low incomes haven’t got choices as their necessities take everything.

I strongly disagree. Having little safety net and still choosing to have children and a mortgage doesn't make you bad with money. It makes you someone able to prioritise value in your life. I chose to have DC because they bring immeasurable joy to my life. I'd rather have children than savings. I chose to invest in a mortgage because I see it as investing in my future. It means I live paycheck to paycheck now, in the hope of not having any housing expenses in retirement.

We make around 55k as a household. I wouldn't say we struggle, but we do live paycheck to paycheck in the sense that we'd really struggle if we missed a month of income for some reason. We've spent our savings on a deposit and between mortgage repayments, nursery costs and bills, we have around £300 leftover for savings or days out.

I don't think that I'm bad with money. I think that life is expensive.

£50k isn't high, if you have a mortgage, rent, childcare etc you will be in the sweet spot (or rather not so sweet) of no help from benefits but not earning much more than the threshold for childcare help. As a single income you also pay proportionately more tax of course too.

Our expenses are far less than that, mortgage free, no childcare, as everyone is saying, it depends

People already aren't having dc because of money.

@Agix well no one is paying school fees & mortgages on 50k.

How can younger people control rents or a lack of social housing?

What are your circumstances? I find these posts are usually made by people who have received a leg up, bought property in the 1990s or have never needed to pay nursery fees.

YABVU
At around that level you often get no benefits at all.
If you’ve got childcare expenses and a mortgage, that could easily write off your entire monthly salary- plus mortgages have risen hugely recently.
You may say that this is really bad planning, but it only takes illness, an unplanned pregnancy, a few unexpected large expanses and the costs of everything to rise to tip the balance on that salary.

People saying outgoings are important, but arnt a lot of outgoings part of the point? You ARE bad with money if youre living beyond (or just at, paycheck to paycheck) your means and thats why your outgoings are high.

With some exceptions... Youve chosen where you live, and how big your mortgage was/how much you spent on the house, kids going to private school (heck, having kids at all, really) cars on finance etc. Making bad financial decisions or living beyond your means is part of being bad with money.

As said, there are some exceptions. If youre reading this and feel defensive, maybe youre an exception who didnt have much choice in the above things... or maybe youre feeling defensive because youre not an exception, and you know youre choosing/have freely chosen high outgoings...

Are you serious?! 🤣

I think you must be on a very low salary to consider £50k wealthy. I’m a nurse and that’s my salary and no one would think I’m wealthy. People on very low salaries often have UC and contribution for rent and childcare which amounts to ££££ that on £50k you’d pay out of pocket.

£50k? That’s some people’s holiday budget.

I, too, would be interested to know.

I felt richer on less than that pre kids than I do now on way more.

£50k is the equivalent of £37k pre-Brexit, which was considered okay at the time, but not "high".

In any case, high-earners living month-to-month aren't necessarily bad with money...it's entirely possible that they used to be bad with money and they're paying off their poor choices.

I know quite a few people in that position.

Obviously outgoings are inportant.

People hear 50k and assume the take home pay is the same as 25k take home pay, but doubled, the truth is it’s not even close to it.

How much are you spending on:
a) housing
b) childcare
As it is these that are the main offenders.