To say that ‘hard work’ alone will never make you rich?

I didn't work hard in school, mainly because I found it easy and got the grades without much effort. I do, however, have a ferocious work ethic and have always worked my arse off in every job I've had since 16.

Unfortunately, I didn't really know what to do with that education and fell into teaching, where hard work is just the norm. Could I work my way up to be a headteacher? Probably. Would I end up working more hours? Not sure, tbh. Would I want to? No. The reason I stayed was because I love teaching my subject. Spending my life in meetings and talking about bollocks strategies and living in fear of being sacked after the next ofsted doesn't appeal.

It's not just about how much you earn but how you spend
Someone on NMW who is careful, doesn't rack up debt and budgets/saves will be better off than someone who spends every penny they have and more, then pays interest on the interest for stuff they bought 5 years ago
They moan about being " skint" on a salary of 45K , can't pay their bills, life is sooooo unfair "someone" should do something who? and get the arse if someone suggests a budget or a second job

It's not always unfair, it's often stupidity

The big thing that most people need to be successful is confidence. Hard work may be necessary (although not always) but confidence is the essential thing.

The confidence to take risks, push yourself forward in work, to move location if necessary, to take on unfamiliar tasks, to lead others. These are all things that most successful and/or self made wealthy people have.

Good health, both physical and mental also helps a lot.

Bring academically successful or having high intelligence is not necessary beyond a certain level. You get diminishing returns on this the higher you go.

Hard work from childhood together with a strategy. There are plenty of examples around the world of people who came from nothing and made a success of their lives. The difference is that they have imagination, drive and self belief.

Yep. Sacrifice is a big one. Sacrifice time with family/friends, hobbies etc. Being driven and single minded, even selfish, so you have tunnel vision on your end goal plus resilience to set backs.
Too many people want the trappings of wealth before they are wealthy ie bigger house/car/holidays etc which means they won't ever be wealthy.

You need to define "hard work". Lower wage workers tend to physically work harder, but usually to progress it's not about the physical work, but strategy. Networking, keeping abreast of industry changes, conferences, training and courses, frequent job changes. It's taking risks and being in difficult positions not getting comfortable. Not 14 hour shifts of monotonous work. When people say they've worked hard to get to where they've been, that's what it means to me.

My dad has physically worked harder than me in his much lower paid job, but I've put myself in far more challenging and uncomfortable positions he never would; he would never publicly speak, or commute 100 miles a day for the next leg up, or make a decision on a multi million pound contract, or start studying again. But these are some of the core reasons I managed to become a high earner.

It’s not as simple as this. Obviously connections and networks are important and they obviously confer a huge advantage but they are not the only important factor.

A connection will open a door but if you lack the intelligence and drive to use that connection you will run aground.

True success is usually a combination of several stars aligning.

Earning well is not about luck it's about being committed to your career rather than just choosing a low paid job because you have no education. / ambition for anything else .

Yes because there are that many 6 figure jobs available? nurses, paramedics, teachers, no education and ambition?

I know from working in schools that many people underestimate how hard a lot of successful people work. Too many of my students think success comes easily to other people and use that as an excuse not to do much.

I think running is good for teaching this. If you run 5/6 times a week, will that mean you will win lots of races and become an Olympic runner? No. Will it mean that you will be fitter and faster than most people? Yes.

I worked for a company for 15 years.
Started in the warehouse at 21.
Long hours, overtime, putting myself out to be useful.

I was told hard work leads to success.

By my 15th year I'd gone from being on the warehouse floor, to supervisor, to office based admin assistant.

In my 15th year, an 17 year old started.
They let him work a fortnight in every department. In every department, he was lazy, didn't take anything on board, had bad attitude etc.

After about 10 weeks or so, he was given the choice of which department he wanted to work in.
They'd never done that for anyone before.

It just so happens this kid is the neighbour of the boss, his family all go football together, they holiday together. The big boss and this kids dad play golf together.

Fuck hardwork. It'll never win against nepotism and luck.

Read any thread where people earn 100k + (and tbf half of MN seem to) and everyone will insist it's because they had drive, took opportunities and worked really hard. That is probably true ...but I'd guess a lot (not all) involved other factors like natural ability/talent, supportive family, good education, good physical and mental health, being exposed to opportunities and an element of luck. I think people feel offended if you point out that because they think you're insinuating they didnt work hard when both can be true, they worked really hard and had some advantage/privilege. Even race and gender (of which you do not influence) can be an advantage - If you look at the demographic of a lot of rich successful people I'd imagine there is a majority of white men. Do women and people of colour not work as hard as them?

DH bought his first property when he was 21 (in the 1980s) He gets really upset if I suggest there was an element of luck because property prices were comparably lower, he insists it's because he worked really hard. I've known him nearly 30 years and he absolutely does have a really hard work ethic, but it's also true a 21 year old today in the same job with the same work ethic would be unlikely to to buy a similar property.

It's not just hard work, it's the right hard work.

I'm not rich, but I'm doing really well. I've got there by putting myself in the way of luck, and yes, working really hard, after getting the right education - which I also worked really hard to get, since my parents are also not wealthy and so could only offer a small amount of (much appreciated) support.

Basically, every big decision in my life was carefully considered - from my A-levels, to not getting a pet until I'd 'made it' so I could move around as much as I needed to to get the the next good job.

I was willing to do things that other people weren't - move country at the drop of a hat, work weird hours (currently in a meeting, I started work at 6am - as I have done for the last 3 years to overlap with another country and so that I can still look after my kids since I'm also a single mum). And I was willing to take risks - some paid off, some didn't.

If I'd done what my siblings had done - taken degrees they were interested in (not that I'm not interested in my degree! But that wasn't the primary driver), taken jobs close to where they liked to live, had children an pets and hobbies that they didn't want to compromise with or delay, then I'd be like them. Middling to OK - which is fine, if that's the life you want. If you want to be rich (and you're not born with money) then it's going to take sacrifice.

Anyone under early 40s has a completely different landscape in terms of wage stagnation, changes to mortgage lending, house prices etc. so it's pointless someone older saying "I did this'", particularly if it simply making money out of property. And then within that a 25 yr old has it even harder than the 40 yr old did when they were the same age.

Yes you need to work hard but that is not enough on its own.

Working hard at (for example) waitressing or care work or being a TA will not give you the skills to progress to shift manager or care home manager or teacher.

You might have those skills and qualifications from elsewhere in your life but you won't get them on the job.

To me it's a lot about making good decisions and critical thinking. My friends are all a similar age and similarly (degree) educated. We've got a mix of backgrounds - some wealthy and some less so but there's no correlation between that and success now. My friend who earns the most (around £150k) grew up in a council house with a single mum. Broadly we all earn the same. But geez, some have made some stupid decisions over the years with money which will ultimately will make them less rich. Lots of people I know live in big houses with huge mortgages and fancy cars but zero pension for example. They won't be rich when they're 65 but might appear rich now. Although a lot of that is bolstered by debt. Rich means different things to different people.

But your DH’s success wasn’t just about “hard work” but working hard in a way that enable him to generate a very good income. He presumably used his nous and ability to work smartly, and willingness to take some risks, rather than simply slog his guts out day in day out.

I work in Finance. I could work ferociously hard 20 hours a day for a week, manually doing calculations long-hand with a pencil and paper for my budget report, or I could use a spreadsheet and get the same job done in 20 minutes, and without any of the inevitable errors that occur from manual calculations….. and then sit on my arse for the rest of the week (I don’t as I have many other things to do!).

We're also forgetting PLENTY of people make a minimum wage and see it as a 'career' because they're doing something they enjoy/feel important. Thank god some people in care homes/some healthcare/social work/TAs don't have the 'ambition' to move up and keep our country moving. I don't think it's purely an intelligence/ambition thing.

Your last sentence is unfair. Your statements don't take into account that people's intelligence levels vary. Some people are stuck in low paid, menial jobs because (not meaning this in a nasty way) they lack the basic intelligence to move up any sort of career ladder. Nothing to do with ambition, and all the education in the world won't propel someone up through the ranks if they don't have what it takes to start with. The playing field will never be level, for this exact reason.

Hard work yes, but determination and a refusal to give up are also important. So many people either get complacent, or just lose interest and give up.

You have to work hard , education is free , this is the starting point . If you want to make money choose a well paying career and focus hard in it taking all the opportunities offered . Put yourself out to move locations for promotions etc .
Earning well is not about luck it's about being committed to your career rather than just choosing a low paid job because you have no education. / ambition for anything else .

Working hard at creating opportunities for yourself, working hard at connecting with the right people and proving your worth (to them).

If someone has the required skills/business smarts for that, absolutely. But without those, it's pretty hard to progress up the ladder. Some are always going to be stuck at the bottom through no fault of their own regardless how hard they work.

To answer this, you can absolutely find ways to work smarter in your line of works but it all boils down to goals, decisions, risk and somewhat going with gut and having a little luck.

For someone doing on the ground work like this, there are opportunities to move up, to train others so that there is always a generation that can pick up the work and putting yourself in more senior positions within this space- whilst making validated decisions which earns you more money. Even if it takes years.

A cousin of mine started as a mental health nurse - on the ground, crazy shifts with 3 children and fleeing domestic abuse! She completely started her life again in another city. Worked hard! Then moved up to senior position and started freelancing for other practices which gave her more income. Then as the kids grew up she started investing in businesses and continued moving up bands whilst growing the business directly related to her work. Her business was solving a direct issue she had seen whilst “on the ground”.

Now she’s not rich, but very comfortable and able to take care of her children, with her own home m, car etc.

People who have money or are “rich” are quite intentional - they make what I call “money” decisions and can often see into the future (not psychic - but opportunities that the average person may miss) and they work towards a future version of themselves and at the same time are an actual service to people, whilst branching out what the offer - and this comes in many shapes and forms.

I think work ethic is so much more important than hard work - the word work ethic describes an attitude and way of working. But every decision made has to be intentional.

The “easiest” way to increase your lifetime wealth is by investing. IE in stocks or property. Obviously for the average Joe it’s slow going for the first years but then accumulation really starts kicking in. A big difference of course is that rich kids have their parents invest kn theur behalf while the typical state school kid isn’t even taught about it at school.

There is also being rich in money, and being rich in satisfaction in helping others. Kudos to all on the thread who have done well in their bank balances, and kudos to all who have spent their time happily in service to others