To assume teachers will leave private schools

Teachers need to be more financially literate.

You might be the exception in having spotted how bad the deal is and stayed away.

Another thing is that private schools are increasingly disapplying their own pay scales, with a ‘more fool you’ attitude when people realise that they should have negotiated a better deal for themselves on entry.

Academy trusts cannot currently opt out of TPS. If they could, they would have!

@ilovelurchers I've been a teacher for 30 years and have taught in everything from inner-city London comps to top private girls' day schools. Yes, state schools are underfunded, but also the explosion in social and emotional problems so many students have, plus ever-increasing levels SEND, are creating an impossible situation. I'm a pretty good classroom manager (not necessarily a natural). I'm simply not willing to put up with it any more. I want to teach, not fire-fight behaviour. I currently work in a girls' grammar school and I will not leave until I retire.

You sound like an amazing teacher @Ilovelurchers !
Teaching is so difficult these days and I don’t think it’s the fault of those that can’t “hack” the tough comprehensive or expensive private schools (not suggesting you said that, just reflecting on some other posts). Teaching has changed so much in recent years to encompass much more than pedagogy- social issues, poverty, mental health issues, drugs and parenting to an extent.
You can’t enter teaching just for the love of teaching anymore.

Depends on the school . I have just left a private school and the salary was much higher than in state - after 5 years in the job as a mature entrant to teaching and just doing a normal subject role, was on 53k and in TPS (and incidentally accused of lying a few years ago by a notoriously chippy teacher on here).
Day school but free breakfast and lunches, longer days but also longer holidays.
Good resources and no restriction on printing/photocopying -hence why they get the pick if the best teachers as per the PP comment re Maths vacancy.

I do agree to an extent - state schools are horribly underfunded, and consequently class sizes are way to high.

I am an experienced teacher with a lot of decades under my belt, including in management. Though I am not a natural classroom manager who can just walk in and own the room, I have, as you can imagine, worked hard to develop classroom management skills over the years and now consider myself pretty decent with all but the toughest classes.

I work in a relative challenging city school in an area of high deprivation. Generally I really enjoy it, but I have one Year 9 class which has grown and grown as I have accepted challenging students into the class because my colleagues who teach the other groups are, through no fault of their own, less experienced than me and less able to cope. This group does push my limits in a way that I am not usually used to these days, and I do feel that this situation shouldn't occur - there should be some slack in the staffing timetable, so that we are not all teaching mixed ability groups of 30 or more.....

I don't even have enough chairs in my classroom!

Furthermore, a lot of poor behaviour is, in my opinion, down to students who are angry because of the appalling levels of deprivation they endure at home - angry with a life that must seem relentless, miserable and without much hope of change.

I don't blame them for being angry. I do blame the society that allows children to grow up like this......

Nontheless I consider state school teaching to be a privilege. I love my job, I love the young people I work with, I love the feeling that we are making a difference, however slight. Along with my daughter it's the best thing in my life.

And students deserve people who feel like I do about it. Not teachers who would rather be anywhere else than in that classroom.....

So yeah. Something needs to change.

I wouldn't move to a private school just now unless you are very certain about it's financial state. There will be closures in the next 2-3 years.

I've taught in private schools for 12 years, and I've always loved it, and never found any of the stereotypes of awful parents and entitled kids that people always go on about. But since Covid there's been such a focus on "business first" that it's sucked all the joy out of my job. I love teaching, I'm passionate about education, but I have no interest in providing a luxury experience for "customers" and expanding/promoting the business, which has become the main focus of my job.

I'm on about 12k less than I would be as HOD in a similar sized state school, our school days run til 5pm, and we have evening and Saturday boarding duties (but I don't live in). I can't make use of the 50% staff discount, because I still can't afford it, and fees are routinely going up by 2-3 times as much as salaries each year. We have a fairly standard workplace pension. We don't even get free lunch anymore.

But I don't know if I'm brave enough to leave! I've not worked in a comp for 12 years and I don't know if I could hack it these days. Probably the answer is just to get myself promoted out of the classroom (into a job I definitely wouldn't enjoy, but at least I'd get paid properly for it)

I think private school teachers get
better behaved children
longer holidays
reduced fees for their own children
sometimes accommodation
smaller class sizes

I did see in the press, a couple of months ago, that they might consider raising salaries for state paid workers in return for reducing pensions and the unions were not necessarily against it.

My own sister an excellent teacher left her state school due to how dreadful it was - there are less good schools in both sectors.

You are implying that the PP that said something negative about state schools is making it up.
By your way of thinking, why is it rude to make a negative comment about state schools if it is true from their experience?

The example in my post is what a state school teacher told me. Of course I know and they know that it does not represent all state schools or pupils so I don’t post it on MN thinking it’s the truth about all state schools.
I only post it to point out your hypocrisy.

Why is that rude? It’s what several friends at that teach at private schools have told me. Are you suggest they are making it up?

How rude. My DD’s private school is really good and they are very fond of the teachers and vice versa.

The other negative thing I heard about state school is nightmare unengaged parents. One friend who teaches at a state school literally had parents yelling we pay your wages when their child was suspended.

Not sure what the point of your anecdote was. The hypocrisy of your post.
Generalisations either way are pointless.

ETA: @BagGreen24 - all schools will have their pros and cons. The management style, ethos, colleagues, pupils, commute etc will impact people’s choices of why they work there. Pay, pensions and financial perks is just one part of why someone takes any job.

Well assuming that’s true it wouldn’t be surprising considering all using the sector will be rich, highly engaged parents supplementing the £££ they’re paying on education with tutoring and extra curriculars. Many SEN cases wouldn’t make entry either. I have a friend who tutors and nearly all her clients are from one particularly highly thought of private school. One does wonder why there is a need for tutoring on top if it’s so great. 😳

the majority of the teachers I worked with (and I am deeply sorry if this offends some people - I am in no way suggesting it is true in all cases) had sought out private school jobs because they could not cope in a state school. Either because their behaviour management wasn't good enough; or their pedagogy; in some cases their understanding of their subject: their organisational skills; or just their general emotional resilience.

Frankly, a lot of behaviour in state schools isn't really coped with properly by any teacher, and some SLTs are terrible and do not support teachers. It's not how the job should be, and I don't really see why any teacher should feel they havd to put up with it.

I've worked in a variety of state and private schools. Tbh the difference in working conditions, behaviour class sizes, facilities, perks etc would probably have been more than enough to keep me in a private school compared with many state schools in spite of the pension issue.

Private schools accept untrained teachers. Not necessarily unqualified in their subject, but without PGCE or QTS. So lesser conditions and at times even lower salaries work for them.

Private schools can. It doesn't necessarily mean they all do. The private schools I've worked at paid more than state schools.

So much prejudice against private schools. However, most get better results than local state schools, even those that aren’t selective in their intake and can recruit easily even with less of a pension. Plus the teachers aren’t leaving in droves. Think that tells us all we need to know.

So have I and aside from the normal trying it on with supply and one particular struggling school most certainly didn’t see bad behaviour across the board.

Would like to add there is bad behaviour in the private sector, bullying,MH issues, drugs….. they don’t disappear because parents have a bigger income.

the majority of the teachers I worked with (and I am deeply sorry if this offends some people - I am in no way suggesting it is true in all cases) had sought out private school jobs because they could not cope in a state school. Either because their behaviour management wasn't good enough; or their pedagogy; in some cases their understanding of their subject: their organisational skills; or just their general emotional resilience.

This sounds very much like a lot of the teachers I had. I remember a few who were great teachers at my school but who wouldn't have lasted a day in an inner city comp!

I have worked as a supply teacher in most of the state schools in 3 counties. Trust me, behaviour is appalling. It is the reason most often cited for teachers leaving.

I have mostly taught in state but did a brief stint in private, and the majority of the teachers I worked with (and I am deeply sorry if this offends some people - I am in no way suggesting it is true in all cases) had sought out private school jobs because they could not cope in a state school. Either because their behaviour management wasn't good enough; or their pedagogy; in some cases their understanding of their subject: their organisational skills; or just their general emotional resilience.

I very much doubt these kinds of teachers would go back into state just because of poor conditions. A lot of them had basically jumped before they were pushed.

To be honest, those of us good enough to teach in state schools only stayed a year or two in private and then went back anyway, because the attitudes and values in private schools tend to be so appalling. (Most teachers are liberal thinkers with a strong sense of social justice - note I say "most", not "all").

They get longer holidays but the school day is quite a lot longer and if it's a boarding school there will be additional evening duties as well as Saturday morning school and often also Sunday morning chapel/supervsion of weekend sports, activities etc. It's difficult to compare state v private on a generalised basis as there are so many variables (my BIL teaches at a public school having left the state sector, but his role would be different again from teaching in an independent day school with a more typical 9-4 school day).

I don't think it's always just about salary or even well behaved children.

It's about working in a supportive environment with SLT who want everyone to thrive.

I'm support staff in a private school, have children at a different private school and worked until two years ago in a state school.

The difference between SLT at the state to the private is astonishing. At the private, they don't spend their days disciplining children so they concentrate on growing the school.

Also, there are significant perks. Use of the school pool and gym, free lunches, ouf staffroom has bread supplied, toasters, fresh fruit bowl daily, biscuits, free tea and coffee machine.

Yep my friend left a very nice boarding school for that very reason saying rude entitled children got away with murder because their parents were paying. I have another who has used the private sector for her child saying the parents with several children coming up were treated differently to those with only one and they just didn’t deal with the clear bullying of her child. It was ignored, excused and covered up. In our area parents seem to surf private schools trying them all so they’re clearly not all that. Have had stories from multiple friends complaining of bullying not being dealt with, drugs, dire support for SEN…..

And as for the expulsion for low level disruption, any teacher that can’t cope with low level disruption from one child is not necessarily one I’d want to be paying to teach my children. Any case of a child ending up expelled is sad and not something to crow about.I’ve always taught in the state sector and I’m proud of how well teachers in this sector teach creatively, engaging all abilities and challenges. Agree it’s the workload that’s dire.

I agree, OP, there will be an exodus of experienced teachers. Teachers in private school academies near me are striking. It will especially impact older, more senior teachers for whom retirement is in sight. A PP compared the situation to nurses happily working in private health care, but this is not a good comparison. Nurses in private health care earn significantly more and have much better working conditions and flexibility than in the NHS. There is a clear trade off. The withdrawal from the TPS really unbalances the pros and cons of working in private schools in a much more significant way that in the NHS vs private healthcare.