To assume teachers will leave private schools

Not really, I said ‘top up’ not complete pension. You out in whatever you can afford. It’s tax free.

Entitlement is bad.
But the state teacher I know regularly receives death threats from parents.

As ever these threads fill up with anecdata on both sides, proving absolutely nothing. There are good and bad teachers, parents, leadership, kids and T&C's in both sectors. An army officer might make a fab teacher in a school where the prime concern is classroom management, an academic don the better teacher in a highly selective environment. One is not better than another, just better suited. Let's not all rush to denigrate the "other" side of whatever fence we are on.

Please get pension advice before making a decision based on your pension. You are not comparing like with like. You are not receiving a 28% pension vs a 10% pension in a new job.

The TPS costs employers 28% but that is not what you receive. The TPS is a defined benefit pension scheme. The 28% is paying for current pensioners. It is not related to what you will receive.

The 10% contributions offered by the private school is a defined contribution pension scheme. You are actually receiving that 10% and invested well, could come close to providing a similar pension on retirement depending on how old you are.

The TPS rules have changed many times over the years so what you receive on retirement if you leave now or if you leave in your 60’s will depend on when you entered the scheme. Look into all of this before you make your decision. I think you’ll probably find that you’ll not be that worse off from a pension perspective.

There are some long running threads on here about the pensions issue but in a nutshell, TPS is unfunded so one has to consider it may eventually collapse or at least be significantly watered down (and the risk is higher the younger you are); state schools currently have to offer it; there are certainly some staff who'd take a pay rise over a better pension (ones who want to get on the housing ladder in the SE for instance) which independent schools are free(ish) to offer; and the independent sector isn't, I think, having more difficulty than the state sector with hiring overall. Everyone is struggling to hire some of the time. The pool is small and diminishing hence all the overseas trained staff.

So it is all very school and situation and location dependent and getting informed is an excellent idea.

Wesleyan is one suitable financial advice source.

I totally agree. Pension is 100% important. I have understood the importance of it since my 20s and I am in my 30s now, I top up my a private pension on top of my NHS pension to make sure I will have enough. The longer you delay a pension then there is less chance of a comfortable retirement. You need to start your pension yesterday!

Ha yes grim behaviour knows no class bounds! Which is why I find it mildly annoying when parents think you can “buy your way out” of issues with difficult people.

Personally think schools deal with the sharp end of wider issues in society. Private schools of course insulate against that to some extent as everyone there is wealthy (they are in comparison to many at state as are we). So comparing results is comparing apples and pears.

That’s just a ridiculous and stupid thing to say. I cared very much about my pension and so should everybody else. Now I’m nearing it I’m very glad I’ve got good provision.

Yes I’m sure some people are be re comfortable etc. Some people from industry might not want to take a pay cut though. I live in a town with a lot of independent schools and a couple of them are struggling to fill their vacancies as they pay less than state schools and have the pension issue.

Jobs aren't just about the pension though. Especially young teachers in their 20s who probably aren't even thinking about the pension.

I had a parent in a private school threaten me in a way that made me fear for the safety of their young child. In state I would have referred him to CSC, but apparently threatening a female teacher is acceptable behaviour in that school. In state he would have been banned from the premises.

I can assure you that "nightmare entitled parents" are not exclusive to the private sector, far from it!
I work in state schools and some of the demands from parents are beyond ridiculous.

I recently had a parent saunter into school 40 minutes late to collect his child because he had "a very important meeting". He didnt even apologise and seemed genuinely shocked to be told that he needed to organise his own childcare. He "assumed the teacher wouldn't mind". I've had parents refuse to collect vomiting children from school because they're "too busy" with work, a parent who made a formal complaint to the Govenors because their child didn't get the role they wanted in a school production, and i've even had a parent who wanted the date of a whole-school event to be changed because it clashed with a holiday that they chose to pull their child out of school for. Honestly, I could write a book.

I've had parents yelling at me that their taxes pay my wages. I've had parents threaten to take legal action against me (not the school, me personally) for reporting legitimate safeguarding concerns. I've had to deal with parents turning up at school drunk or under the influence of drugs. Some of my colleagues have been threatened with violence by parents.

I've worked with families in very affluent areas and those from socio-economically deprived areas and I've come to the conclusion that entitled twattery transcends class.

No it's much easier teaching in a private school. I've done both while it's kind of against my principles I would never teach in a state school again

Longer lunch times, definitely, do even if you run a club, still have time to eat and have break. In my school teachers /teach 20 out of 30 periods a week, do there is time for marking/planning during school
hours

I’m surprised someone said the summer holiday difference was only 2 weeks. My DDs broke up at the end of June and back second week in September. Much longer Christmas and Easter too. Staff go back earlier of course. Days were long but no Saturday school, just sport. Not all teachers did anything after formal lessons at all. Some did of course but long lunch breaks were for many clubs. Few teachers had boarding duties but if they did, teaching time was greatly reduced. So it’s not a universal picture. Small classes and well behaved dc are a bonus. Parents want good results, but that’s universal amongst well educated parents in state schools too. Always check financial stability though. Not all schools have opted out of TPS.

Exam results reflect pupil demographics

My DSis didn't magically become a better teacher when she moved from state to private school

Not sure of the stats but it used to be that most state teachers don’t stay in teaching so long (most leave after 5 years) that their pension is worth that much anyway. Also successive government have spent the money in tps so I’ll be incredibly surprised if there’s any left for teachers/ ex-teachers like me if we’re lucky to reach retirement age 😁 I loved teaching but it’s a mugs game. At least in private you’ll get nice resources and are probably not being told to fuck off all the time.

But we as a sector recruit teaching staff from a slightly different pool, aside from PGCE/QTS career teachers we also take a lot from industry and other sectors and train them in house to gain an independent schools PGCE via correspondence with the University of Buckingham if they wish.

We also have a lot of staff who were independently schooled themselves and are more comfortable in our environment.

In 12 years I can only think of one teacher we recruited from state, who was really good, but ultimately didn't like it and went back after a few years.

Not sure about a mass exodus but they will struggle to recruit.

Exactly, aside from reports I have NEVER done any school work at home.

i have a (SEN) child in mainstream private and one in state. The state school has a rate of kids getting 5As at scottish higher of 7%, the private school is 34%. A lot of the difference is obviously that the private school is selective in intake, but there are a lot of bright kids in the state school who would easily get 5As if in the private school but don’t in the state school. The reason? Classroom disruption take up about 25% of every lesson in the state school, and 0% in the private school. I don’t work in education but there is NO WAY I’d be a teacher in a state school. It would be soul destroying. The money would be a totally meaningless factor.

It's more than just pay though. A friend who works at a private school gets enough time outside of lessons for planning and prep that she pretty much never brings work home (very occasionally she does reports at home.)

she's at a boarding school and even when she has her two long days she's home by 6.30. Plus longer holidays, use of top notch gym/pool/facilities/can go on school trips skiing and what not for free (though I appreciate that's still work) and a huge discount if she wanted to send her own kids. The smaller class sizes mean she has a real rapport with the children she teaches too.

When she worked at a state school she was always doing extra at home, burned out from behaviour and felt like she never had the chance to make a real difference, which was why she went into teaching in the first place.

Its long been about negotiation, the pay scales are just something written down, and pay rises are best had by doing good work and then visiting the head for a chat once yearly and negotiating more.

Add to this if you do a lot of duties, and your spouse mucks in too many independent schools will give you a free house so you can let yours out.

I was private school educated and taught in the private sector and briefly in the state. They are quite different in environment and general working practices. We have much less paperwork, less managerial oversight, longer holidays, smaller classes, free lunches. On the flip side we do longer days, evening and weekend duties and organise many more extra curricular activities.

I don't think anyone I have worked with would move to a state school, either move out of teaching (many had careers before teaching) or to another indy. A good third of our teaching staff don't have QTS so would be limited in what they could earn in the state anyway.

I was head of science, dept of 9 teachers, and I was the only QTS holder, the others had come to us from industry save for the head of biology who is a medical doctor (still registered) who got fed up with hospital life and joined us as school GP / Biology.

The withdrawal from TPS, which we did a few years back doesn't seem to have caused much in the way of an exodus or issues in recruitment.

It will vary from school to school. I think independent school teachers will likely move to better paying independents given the choice.
Some people might still feel that smaller classes, more prep time and longer holidays balance. But many won't.