To think lots of badly behaved children are getting passed as SEN

There should be, yeah. At least an expectation that an effort is made to do these things, even if they don’t get it right each time.

I think the issue often lies with the parents. If they’re shrugging their shoulders and giving it “there’s nothing I can do, he’s got ASD/ADHD so this is the way he is” then how will a kid ever learn?

It’s a shame as they need to grow up and function somewhat in society, so the parents with the attitude I describe above are failing them.

Because it's about children like my child, who has SEN and it's about parents like me. And people are talking such nonsense about it all, and promoting harmful crap. So it bothers me and I want to respond to that. Rather than let it carry on. I appreciate that it would be easier for people to continue discussing people like me and my child without being disturbed, but tough.

Why do people who don’t like this kind of thread not just scroll on past? Save yourself the upset.

Yanbu. Surely even with SEN there should be an expectation of kind behaviour, respecting teachers etc? It seems to be used as justification for all sorts.

I don't know that @Boardingschoolmumoftwo - really interesting!

Exactly

The problem is that parents observing from the outside have NO idea of all the factors involved.

You don’t tend to know if a particular pupil is behind in their work. One of my dc is working over two years behind in written work and because they are articulate no other parents will know.

I know a dc where there is elective mutism suspected after trauma. Again other parents will have no idea of all the factors there.

This,
As a parent who has a child with Sen needs I feel that it’s being used to excuse bad behaviour, especially ADHD, ASD and other ND traits, and minimises the needs of those children who require the additional support.

I think everyone is a bit ND. I don't know a single person that doesn't have a 'quirk'. There is a difference between SEN (needing assistance to navigate the world) and a diversity that may not alter your every day life.

Also going in to adulthood, I have also encountered many people in the work setting who ask for a moon on the stick due to ND but have never been diagnosed / are pushing for diagnosis and not getting but use their belief to not carry out their contractual duties.

I absolutely despise these threads that just want to enjoy ripping the parents of SEN children and the children themselves apart, under the excuse of claiming to not actually be discussing them. It's all excused by saying "oh we don't mean you, we mean some other type of parent", but it's just a nonsense.

This is a good point.

Not to mention the benefits system being stretched further in the same manner.

I think what many people don’t realise when they say oh they won’t get a diagnosis if they don’t have x y or z is that while this is correct because of the dreadful wait times for an assessment, currently a number of years in most cases if parents or staff have concerns then the child will be treated and accommodated as though they do have the need. This approach comes from a good place as it means that children who need support are getting it while they wait for an assessment. Unfortunately what is also means is that children who do not have SEN but who have perhaps a lack of boundaries or whose parents would rather not face into their behaviour being actually just bad behaviour are also being accommodated. For a SEN child the changes made for them at school will make an enormous difference to their wellbeing, for the children who don’t actuallly need to accommodations they will learn that if they ‘meltdown’ they get iPads and they don’t have to do their work and they can behave badly without consequences, it’s a mess but sadly I don’t see how it can change unless waiting times for assessments dramatically improve as it’s unfair to work a child with SEN not being supported

I would tend to agree. What concerns me is that support is spread ever thinner and the children who really need it are less likely to get it.

Absolutely - 99%

Here we go.

I agree with you massively OP

Children with SEN displaying bad behaviour still need to learn to behave.

But yes, I agree with you.

I have yet to meet a single child who I think has naughtiness being excused as SEN and my dc have been in various childcare settings and schools for ten years. The suggestion in the OP just isn’t true IME and suggesting it is pretty ableist.

Ooh, late night goady ND poster. It’s been a minute.

Most bad behaviour is as a result of this
' gentle ' parenting crap . Parents should be parents not friends . Kids need boundaries .

Agree completely.

Private diagnosis is hugely to blame I think. Anyone can go to an ADHD assessment and churn out some stories of how they were as a child, and there they have a diagnosis. I have seen it a thousand times through my job.

With kids, I think even slight variances can cause people to suspect SEN. You see it on here all the time - someone’s kid is shy, bored in school, saying no when they ask them to have a shower. Well it must be SEN. And don’t force them because they’re overwhelmed. And don’t make them go to school if they say no.

Lazy parenting can also be a factor. People firing their kids in front of an iPad for 9h a day then wondering why their attention span to anything else is zero. Same with having no bedtime routine, they must need melatonin.

It’s honestly a bit of a gripe of mine (if you can’t tell!). Parents are often very quick to look for a medical reason to absolve them of any wrongdoing in bringing up their kids.

Some centres twice as likely to diagnose autism... Guardian article

This is about diagnosing adults.

I'm cautiously agreeing with you, if your intentions are good here OP.

I work at a visitor attraction where we have upwards of 2000 children come and visit per year.

I have always found that the parents of kids with SEN generally do their upmost to keep their kids behaviour in check so that it doesn't negatively affect others, and if they can't they'll remove them from the situation.

However, there are many parents who will let their kids run riot and spoil everyone's enjoyment, whilst stating "They probably have (insert condition)" and shrug their shoulders without even attempting to handle the situation.

I agree with you OP. I work in a setting surrounded by children and I am constantly appalled at the amount of poor parenting and they excuse their children’s behaviour by describing them as SEN. It seems to have become fashionable!
Of course there are children who are SEN but many more who are labelled as such when they are simply displaying normal behavioural characteristics.
It is very worrying.