To think lots of badly behaved children are getting passed as SEN

Yeah, OP, if we are seeing 1/4 or 1/5 of all kinds being diagnose, there is a problem with the parameters for diagnosis.

I think there are a few reasons, some of it is inappropriate expectations of kids in school.

Some is that parenting norms now can have serious issues around setting appropriate boundaries.

And the other part I believe is that we are causing iatrogenic disease - through addiction to media, and also lack of appropriate self-directed play time, both alone and with other kids.

So some is real problems we are creating, but I think quite a lot is not. The kids just need a more appropriate environment and expectations.

Oof, you are brave/foolhardy for starting this thread. YANBU though.

Maybe I'm naive, but I really thought the OP was not talking about children with diagnoses, or denying that conditions exist.

I agreed with the OP whilst having a brother with ASD (70s kid, undiagnosed) whose school life was HELL.

I haven't walked in your shoes so I won't involve myself further.

@Kibble29 cool. You do you and I'll do me, including how I react to threads and what I post.

Don’t make out that I objected to you responding when I wondered why people don’t scroll past rather than get upset with it all. 😅

Everyone can share their opinion. If people’s thoughts don’t align with yours, that’s fine. Not everything is a personal attack.

@PixieLaLar oh I recognise the "tone".

@Isittimeformynapyet I didn't say it was. And I was responding to someone who objected to people like me responding to threads like this. So it's utterly reasonable to give my thoughts on this and to consider what the OP and others are saying as applicable to me and to my child, as an example of the kind of people the OP wants to target with this discussion.

I think you have really misunderstood the tone of this thread.

People throwing the diagnosis of SEN around so readily minimises the real cases.

Sorry, but it really isn't all about you.

No one is diagnosed with SEN. It's not a diagnosis. Some kids on their school's SEN register will have a medical diagnosis of a specific condition and some won't. Some kids move on and off the register.

No parent is rushing to get their toddler diagnosed because it's literally impossible to "rush" to any kind of diagnosis when the waiting lists are so long. The diagnosis usually comes when you've done a million parenting courses, had a hundred meetings, read all the books, filled out so many forms with the same information - which is to say, when you've done a lot of work for your kid for a parent who is "just not bothered".

Strangely enough, now my son has support in place his behaviour is a lot better. Funny that. Almost like it was because his brain processes differently, and he was anxious, and confused, and unable to understand his and others' emotions rather than because I never tried to teach him right from wrong.

I’ve been on here a long time and know what these posters are after. Faux naive bollocks.

"Jump to get a diagnosis". I didn't realise it was so easy to get a diagnosis. Silly us for letting it take several years! If only I'd known I could have just had my DC diagnosed immediately.

My DC has an autism diagnosis. He's also very well behaved and has always had boundaries. Just like his older brother who doesn't have any SEN.

I don't know why you're talking about the 1 in 5 children who are on SEN support at school or who have EHCPs when your issue seems to be with children without SEN but with shit parents. Why mention the stat and link to the govt website if you're not criticising those children and those parents?

This.

I don't doubt that some people throw the terms around, but there are also a lot of children who are struggling due to a neurodivergence.

I have two who are probably neurodivergent. Both don't display behaviour anything like what you describe. They are incredibly well behaved, rule followers, who listen intently to want their teachers say.

Probably my eldest will do OK at school while his mental health declines if he doesn't have a diagnosis. My second would likely achieve nothing like she is capable of achieving as despite being highly intelligent, she can't talk in school due to anxiety - a likely symptom of her expected autism! She therefore would probably get forgotten about/left behind. We haven't gone for private diagnosis - we couldn't easily afford it and her school are supporting based on what they can see she needs, so instead we are on the long NHS waiting list.

Of course it is. ADHD is a neurodiverse condition. ASD is. They are disabilities by definition.

OP your post is inherently ableist because it is suggesting some dc who are diagnosed with SEND are not really SEND. This is a problem that doesn’t really exist IME.

You should definitely tell people who are neurodivergent that actually everyone is a bit, they absolutely love it when people say that. 😫

I couldn’t give a shit what people challenge. I think most posters like different opinions and scope for debate on subjects.

I don’t think the OP suggested for a minute that everyone with a SEN diagnosis is just a brat with a shit parent, or that SEN conditions don’t exist. That would be offensive and inflammatory.

She feels that people sometimes rush to explain behaviour that can be corrected as SEN, and many of the replies agree with her.

Why is that offensive to you? Nobody’s questioning your parenting or anything like that.

I don’t deny that there are definitely issues with the school system and also parenting issues in UK but you lost me at ‘rush to get them a diagnosis…’ as we all know if you have a child with additional needs there’s no rushing at all about it-so ‘proceeds at a snails pace of waiting lists and paperwork ’ is more accurate.

its also quite a gruelling thing getting your child a diagnosis, it’s certainly not just deciding one day and heading off to get a certificate! And a diagnosis by itself changes very little-so certainly not someone saying oh my child jumps let’s get an ADHD diagnosis let’s be real. It sounds like the parents you are describing don’t care much, so I can’t imagine them spending thousands on a private assessment.

its also not 1 in 4, last data suggests 13.6% without an ECHP and just under 5% with an EHCP. Remember SEN can cover all sorts of different things but even so that doesn’t even add up to 1 in 5 (but almost).
I don’t think you can just apply your child’s class statistical breakdown to every school-although also bit weird they give you a breakdown, I’ve no idea if any other children are SEN in my sons class,

Also whilst I agree that there might be some parents who use the diagnose as an excuse, let’s be real that there also some children in that 3 out of 4 non SEN group that hit and behave poorly also, because poor behaviour isn’t a SEN exclusive issue.

Agree with other poster that these kind of posts are just disguised digs really. Same as posts at outrage if kids starting school not ready/not potty trained etc and adding after a tirade of judgement ‘oh I’m not talking about SEN’ of course you’re talking about SEN they’re a massive part of that group of children.

I will say I might have thought the same before I had my son-having a child with additional needs really humbles you and massively opens your eyes, where I’d have maybe made reductive statements before too. So I do get why people whose children are neurotypical don’t get it, but it doesn’t take much to ask questions and have conversations rather than just jump to generalising,

Because views and posts like OPs that are ignorant, offensive and inflammatory should be challenged. You don’t get to have a little echo chamber I’m afraid. Mumsnet have said before that they have a problem with returning ND trolls so they might be joining in with these threads too. If you don’t want to see people challenging this stuff, then you can always be the one to scroll past.

I think that one of the reasons for more diagnosis is that society was less fast, noisy and overstimulating years ago than now. Many jobs that people used to do had a rhythm that we know can help with sensory needs so for children that might now struggle massively with sitting in a classroom all day and then going home and sitting inside, years ago might have done things like gardening, baking, fetching and carrying for parents, rocking younger siblings and other sensory activities that may have helped regulate them. (Same for adults - bread kneading, digging and hoeing, sweeping etc. are all excellent repetitive, rhythmic activities that can help regulate) There wasn’t the constant music/lights etc. that are everywhere today that can be overstimulating. There were more opportunities for movement and brain breaks than ch get today. Even in the 90s I can remember going outside for lots of lessons and getting more breaks from learning whereas 2-3 phonics lessons a day and filling books to prove to OFSTED children are working doesn’t allow for this. I think our society and education system is actively making neurodiverse people’s lives harder and so it is more noticeable than in years gone by.

And me too! My (adopted) DD1 of 15 has SEN, she wears hearing aids and has been diagnosed with FASD (Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder) and is being assessed for epilepsy after having two seizures recently. She’s being bullied by another girl with SEN and it has appeared at times as if her needs are being prioritised over my DD’s.

All children deserve to feel safe in school whether they have SEN or not.

I’m afraid it’s very easy to have views like those expressed in the OP based on no knowledge at all. But the OP is about as evidence based as someone saying the moon landings are faked.

@Kibble29 maybe you could share how you would decide that my significantly autistic child could or couldn’t be taught certain things. Do you have a qualification in a relevant field?