State school 6th forms oversubscribed

There surely are not schools that contract at 6th form to the extent of only offering 1/4 of the places in y11? The grammars often expand at 6th form taking in more students. We have high staying on numbers though. As 18% of 6th formers are privately educated it’s clear most have gone from state to private. Not the other way round. This % might reduce now.

The idea most students quit private schools in y11 is unfounded. Why would anyone quit Wycombe Abbey or Harrow? Hardly anyone would. A small school with no 6th form is another matter but the best schools hang on to their dc.

6th form round my way is now closer to 30k - vat plus around 6-7% inflationary increase. We also have a school closing due to bankruptcy, so many are heading for state places. Interesting times ahead.

Check the policy. Current y11s who get the required grades cannot be refused. Because the school would be effectively removing from roll and they wouldn't have a legitimate reason to do so. You could appeal and would win.
They can have oversubscription criteria for external students that may have a tiebreaker such as highest grades etc.

Most 6th form subject classes are not full so adding pupils to most classes costs the school nothing in terms of extra teachers. I'm fact extra 6th form pupils from private schools in eeps some subjects open which would have had to close during to a shortfall in numbers. Moving to state at 6th form has been a popular move for some long before the VAT increases. For some it's to take advantage of the smaller classes than state had prior 6th form. For others it's in the hope of not being seen as advantaged by universities in the scramble for the best places.

I'm in a grammar area. My ds is in the 6th form. All the local grammars offer places to all existing pupils as long as they meet the entry requirements (these have been the same for a number of years).

There is always a lot of movement between the grammar, non grammar and local FE college for year 12. It has never been a given that a child starts in Year 7 and progress straight through to the 6th form. All of them have to reapply and they do apply to a number of 6th forms.

We also have a number of independent schools in a 15 mile radius and many pupils leave at the end of Year 11 and move to a state 6th form. Yes, there will be more applying this year but they will not take a place away from a qualifying, existing pupil. The Indy pupils will essentially be competing amongst themselves for the external applicant places.

This isn’t really new though, my DD grammar school is always chock full on open days for sixth form. Loads of kids go from private to public and vice versa. And they’ve also always had a minimum GCSE grade average needed to “guarantee” their place. Same with the other Outstanding rated schools in our area.

It was published almost a year ago, consultations etc all done - so yep, that is what is in place. I just found it interesting when I looked back over previous years to see the significant increase for 2025.

6th form open days are always packed. And there is always a lot of movement from private to state at 6th form level. Not least because some private school parents are misguided to think that Universities have lower entry requirements for state school kids.

They can’t increase their requirements straight away though. It has to be consulted on and publicised. We changed ours to specify 5 in Maths and English Language. The previous requirements kind of assumed that would be met based on points, until someone didn’t meet it. They went on to struggle hugely at A Level, we didn’t have the capacity for resits (no resit classes) so there was loads to sort out. Obviously we did.

Every year there are a few students who don’t meet the (really quite low) grades to stay on and leave. However, everyone is given lots and lots of support and advice. All students are encouraged to have at least a Plan B.

I went to a grammar school myself in the 90s. It was the same then.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow

I don't think that many seem to appreciate that this is what many schools will do. Of course they'll increase their 6th form grade requirements if they know they can attract lots of applicants. They're going to want to attract those students who are likely to achieve the best A level grades, to increase their rankings in the league tables.

They absolutely can.

DD's comp has increased the ask for 6th form this year to six 9-7 grades including English and Maths, with a tie breaker for over-subscription based on point scores (9 for a 9, 8 for an 8 etc)

They have enough places for 1/4 of current Y11 and are heavily oversubscribed by both internal and external applicants.

Most parents don't pay for independent schools all the way through. The majority start at 11 yrs old and therefore several extra £1000 (ie 8K extra) can (and is) a tipping point. We certainly can't afford it for 6th form

Many haven't paid for a private education all the way through though. Lots start at 11. Perhaps parents have been able to afford 5 years but decide that, now the fees are even higher, saving £50-60k on 2 years fees could go towards university fees, meaning that their children leave with minimal debt.

If you’ve paid for your kids education all the way to year 11 surely the year 12 & 13 are 2 of the most important if your aspirations are Oxbridge why not just stay in private/public - the 20% vat can’t be THAT much of a burden? Just buy less avocados and Nespresso pods?

None of our local 6th forms are over subscribed so I expect it’s a location thing. The one my DS wants to go to is selective and oversubscribed but because it’s so good and only take 200 pupils

My dc was at state 6th form years ago, around 15% of their intake was from private schools because they had a wider choice of subjects and results were really close to those of aforementioned private schools, it had a whole county catchment with many students catching the train in

If they don't get the minimum criteria the guarantee is that they will have to leave. It has nothing to do with the school being oversubscribed.

Same here, maybe we are in the same area. Other than at the few remaining grammar schools there are no school 6th forms, everyone goes to college at 16. It is great and I've not heard of anyone not getting into their chosen courses other than if they don't meet the minimum GCSE grades. Even then there is the opportunity to resit or do another level 2 (at college) to eventually get there.

Grammar area and all the schools around me (grammar and comp) prioritise their own students. They have to accept their places the morning of GCSE results, and have to have the required grades, then it's a free for all.
I think the people most affected by the private "influx" are those hoping to move school (and those with no sixth forms), as there might be more competition for that.

So you're choosing to pay SDLT rather than VAT (well I guess there will be VAT on the lawyers fees and removal fees etc)?
Each to their own, but unless you live in a very cheap part of the country I can't imagine the saving is going to be tangible

Every secondary school here (about 5 I know of) are prioritising home grown students. Most kids move from private for 6th form anyway. It's a non issue.

@wombat Yes. So they select based on GCSE results. Dc who don’t qualify don’t get into the 6th form. There is no guarantee if you don’t get the results!

I live in a grammar school area and the pupils already at the schools are guaranteed a place if they meet the minimum grade criteria. The oversubscription criteria apply to pupils not already at the school.

It all comes down to school policy. Around here, priority goes to children already at the school (as long as they make the grades for sixth form), then there are a list of other criteria and it's not a case of the highest grades get the place. Kids always move around heading into sixth form, some go to college, some to a different school.

It won't change things here at all, because the priority is always children staying on, and those that don't make the grades at GCSE aren't competing for the same type of provision as ex-private school high achievers anyway .

Nope it was inevitable . I have kids in private- we can’t afford the vat increase - so state it is. Though we are moving to a nicer area so they get into the state grammar schools. I think labour will be happy as now they’ll be paying for my kids in state schools whereas we were before- so labour will be chuffed. And along with all the others who have left. Luckily without fees it means we can afford to move right on the doorstep of a catchment area grammar school- so Philipson and Starmer would be chuffed as that’s what they did ! They led the way