State school 6th forms oversubscribed

Parents won’t care if the opportunities available to their kids suddenly get taken by a load of ex-private school pupils instead?

Parents won’t care if their kid’s school suddenly is more stretched, and there is extra competition for resources from a lot of new kids who are already well-trained in academic, music and extracurricular achievements?

Ah, silly me, why is anyone bothered then? 🤣

No they’re not 6 x 9-7 is not a big ask and plenty of state pupils get stellar grades. Who says they rank by grades anyway?

I think some private school posters on here are a little naive and arrogant as regards state pupil
grades.

Hate to break it to you but music lessons,enrichment trips etc are meaningless in UCAS applications. Most parents I know don’t give a shit about any of it.

Right, but what’s the point of the policy if it doesn’t make any money?

Yet again as on all of these threads, posters say it won’t make any difference, and then they say, well it’s a good thing anyway if more kids shift to state.

How is it a good thing if the education funding available per pupil actually goes down, plus lots of schools go bust making local people who work in them redundant? How is that a win for anyone? More stretched state schools and a bit more unnecessary unemployment? Doesn’t sound like a result to me?

The only rationale for the VAT policy is that it will make money. That’s what the govt has sold it on. If it doesn’t make any money, the state system gets even more stretched but the remaining students in the private sector get an even bigger advantage, isn’t that just a massive own goal? How could it be anything but? It only works if private school pupils don’t switch!

The pleasant fantasy that a lot of sharp-elbowed former private school parents will change the local state school for the better is just that, a stupid fantasy. a) Are the existing state parents just too useless to advocate for their DC? That’s a silly idea to start with! And b) even if this idea worked, all these new parents will just be advocating for their DC over yours. Now their DC appear in your kids’ schools and get all the music lessons, and the enrichment trips, and the best roles in plays and the head girl posts and the top grades, instead of your kids 🤣

But this is great news. I think it will do the state system the world of good to have within it the children of wealthy, opinionated, and high achieving parents who are interested and pushing for a quality education for their offspring. It will drive up standards all round. Once those influential, well connected, interested parents have skin in the state school game there will be benefits for all the pupils at the school.

I once went to a state school performance that had been choreographed by one of the parents - a former West End choreographer. It was 100 levels above any other school show I’d ever seen. It was brilliant and the children were glowing with pride and enjoyment. Imagine all kids being able to access opportunities like that.

Schools tend to prioritise their own yr 11s as we have to report to the government which destinations they go to post 16 and are penalised if we have NEETs ( not in education, employment or training) so it shouldn't have massive impact on students currently in state schools. We have always had a big influx from the local private at sixth form when parents realise that they don't necessarily get value for money for A levels at private school. In our case our results are very similar and some years better than our nearest private. State schools also get fairly well funded for post 16 so often sixth forms are subsidising the rest of the school.

You seem to have a very low opinion of the ability of state school children. My son and his friends would all see those minimum requirements as a walk in the park. My step son got a string of 8s and 9s despite never making any noticeable effort.

People on this thread haven't missed OPs point which was apparently concern about the impact the new VAT on private schools will have on state school 6th forms. Your point has been made (ad nauseam) on countless other threads.

Example:

School A has 100 places for 6th form
60 places go to internal candidates with required grades (6 x 9-7 incl English and Maths).
40 places available for external candidates.

In 2023 there were 70 external candidates - 10 from private schools. Oversubscription ranking of grades gives those 40 places to the top 40 external.

In 2025 there are now 100 external candidates - 40 from highly selective private schools. Oversubscription ranking of grades gives out those 40 places to the top scorers.

What are the chances of external state school students v selective private school students of being those top scorers? Especially when the MINIMUM required for entry is 6 GCSES at 9-7 including English and Maths...

If you are a local state school parent hoping for that school are you going to be happy about a bigger group in the rankings, especially when almost 50% are from very selective private schools? Your chances of a place are obviously reduced.

Round here then state schools out perform the private schools at GCSE anyway

Example:

School A has 100 places for 6th form
60 places go to internal candidates with required grades (6 x 9-7 incl English and Maths).
40 places available for external candidates.

In 2023 there were 70 external candidates - 10 from private schools. Oversubscription ranking of grades gives those 40 places to the top 40 external.

In 2025 there are now 100 external candidates - 40 from highly selective private schools. Oversubscription ranking of grades gives out those 40 places to the top scorers.

What are the chances of external state school students v selective private school students of being those top scorers? Especially when the MINIMUM required for entry is 6 GCSES at 9-7 including English and Maths...

If you are a local state school parent hoping for that school are you going to be happy about a bigger group in the rankings, especially when almost 50% are from very selective private schools? Your chances of a place are obviously reduced.

Because children after a top state 6th form who are external state candidates will now be competing with external private school candidates who previously may have chosen to stay in private provision.

Given the uptick in applications from children likely to be arriving with top grades (DD's comp has selective private day schools nearby) it means less possibility that school will take those who just miss getting the required grades.

I know a decent number of children last year who were turned down from schools because they just missed getting that 7 in Maths or English even when their selected A level subjects were neither.

Current Y10 and Y11 are big birth years as well.

LAC, PP and EHCP only get priority places if they hit the grade requirements. AFAIK there is no special lower ask.

But state school kids get great grades too and you said there were several options. Internal will have an advantage and all kids need to get the grades they need. Makes no odds where the other kids come from if you don’t get the grades needed for your course.

Pretty much everyone on this thread has completely missed the point.

Private school parents pay tax towards the state education system but don’t “use” it. If they switch back into state the amount of education funding per capita student goes down.

There is a threshold percentage beyond which enough parents switch back into state that it costs the taxpayer more than the amount raised by the extra VAT — so the education funding per student drops below amount before the VAT was added, and the policy then loses the education system money compared to the preexisting situation.

Add to that, the impact on jobs and the rest of local economies if sone private schools close (the people who work in them aren’t rich: they are normal teachers, admin staff, caretakers, dinner staff, etc.). To those who say “well they can go and work in the state sector”, you’ve missed the point — the state sector won’t then have enough extra cash to employ them!

The policy hasn’t yet had an impact because it was brought in mid-year and many private schools haven’t even been allocated a VAT number from HMRC, so the impact won’t be felt until later in this year and ongoing from there.

It might not be happening in your area. There might be loads of places in great state schools in your area. (There aren’t in mine.) But it only takes just enough private school pupils to switch to state in total across the country, and then not only does the VAT policy not raise any money, it starts to lose the state education system money. (That is, of course, exactly what happened in Greece when they tried this and later had to reverse it.) We don’t know yet when, or if, that will happen, as the impact hasn’t even started to set in yet.

BUT - will all of you on this thread who think it’s not a problem still support the policy if it starts losing money? If the amount the state has to educate your child actually drops per head, no new teachers appear, and no new funding? Will you still support it then? (Remember: it doesn’t even need to be happening in your area as long as the total numbers moving from private to state across the country exceed a particular margin - and we don’t even know yet what margin that will be as the costing for the policy was so badly done.)

Because children after a top state 6th form who are external state candidates will now be competing with external private school candidates who previously may have chosen to stay in private provision.

Given the uptick in applications from children likely to be arriving with top grades (DD's comp has selective private day schools nearby) it means less possibility that school will take those who just miss getting the required grades.

I know a decent number of children last year who were turned down from schools because they just missed getting that 7 in Maths or English even when their selected A level subjects were neither.

Current Y10 and Y11 are big birth years as well.

LAC, PP and EHCP only get priority places if they hit the grade requirements. AFAIK there is no special lower ask.

Why is it affecting the chances of state schools? PP , EHCPs and cared for children will always be the priority and anybody else just needs to make sure they get applications in on time. Local feeder state schools will be on it. 6th form colleges are open to anybody and you say you have several, there will also still be movement on results day.

@PocketSand Are you saying 6th form admissions have preferred subjects at GCSE and admit if the dc applying shine at maths but turn away others with 7/8 grades in other subjects? That’s unfair and I’ve never seen that. Dc can be good at a range of subjects and get into a 6th form based on arts subjects as well as sciences.

Not all state schools though.

It must be different throughout the country. I live in SE and in an area with a high number of private schools. The 6th form colleges are also excellent. One of the colleges closed applications early this year due to the high numbers. It is definitely affecting the chances of state school kids round here. Private school parents are seeing the financial advantage of a place at the excellent colleges