State school 6th forms oversubscribed

Links please.

Many many people think this is a good policy. Nobody targeted children for disrupted schooling, irresponsible parents didn’t cater for flex in finances as regards paying for a very expensive luxury service the majority of the country can’t afford. It’s on them.

As the previous poster said nobody cares because there are far bigger things to worry about so zero point trying to whip up a frenzy over something that really isn’t a problem.

Around double that are in private sixth form - that percentage has always been higher at sixth form level.

There has been reporting of this. You may not think that it matters to more than a few people, but those are people’s children being targeted for disrupted schooling because of their parents’ income. I was not in the group of people who were affected by the Tories’ bedroom tax, but I still gave a fuck about the kids who were — because it’s a crappy unjust nasty policy directly to target children just because of their parents’ income. Tax wealth honestly, if you want to tax wealth. Don’t target children as a proxy. It’s shitty and low and plays to the worst instincts of people who hate others.

This!

All the ex private kids nab the places- oh the arrogance. Being privately educated doesn’t make you better grade wise than state kids by default.

I’m in an all-sixth-form area, as I’ve said before, so I fully intend to send my DD state for sixth form. There are some excellent state sixth forms in our area. And here, the competitive admissions policy absolutely means that all the ex-private-school kids nab the places in the best ones (that’s one of the reasons they get such great results). I can tell you first hand that it will happen more with the VAT policy, because it already happens in my area anyway!

Students have always moved from private to state at Yr12. A few more might now but the numbers will be small.
I realise private school parents are trying to whip MN users up in to some kind of frenzy of concern, but the reality is the removal of VAT exemption will only affect a very small number of students, it’s really not on most people’s radar - they have bigger things to worry about.

So apparently now in 6th form colleges across the country numbers are going to shoot in to 20% extra because a tiny fraction of the 6% that are privately educated can no longer afford it. And there seems to be zero reporting of this anywhere .Okkkaaay.

Oh come on nobody will track you down from your anonymous MN name. The issue is you can Google but nothing comes up because there is no issue with SF places, quite the reverse.

Maybe you could post your location and some links to your local area too? Obviously there is no reason why anyone wouldn’t want to post their location on an anonymous internet board. 🙄

There have been several recent press reports of local authorities which have no state school places. You can easily google rather than expecting others to do that for you.

Right - so these extra pupils don’t generate any other costs to resources? The extra marking/admin/books/teaching resources/teachers’ time/admin staff and time/etc. etc. are just nonexistent, then? I can tell you know nothing about teaching.

Imagine your workload was just increased by 20 percent overnight. Would that be that okay with you? Do you think the teachers in those classes think there are no extra costs to having more students if, say, an extra 20 percent more work suddenly appeared in their workload? What about an extra 20 percent workload for the admin staff or the pastoral tutors? An extra percentage cost in providing sports resources, chairs, tables, books, toilet supplies, cleaners, kitchen and dining room staff, and so on and so on?

It’s such a fantasy to say schools can just fit in some extra pupils with no bother as if it doesn’t cost anything. If you think that’s true then I’m sure you’d be perfectly happy to absorb an increase in your workload with no extra time or support.

Which? Can we have some links please. Names and links have been requested several times and still nothing.

Exactly jana. It’s very sweet that the private school parents are so concerned about the impact of their kids joining the state sector but sleep soundly absolutely no issues here anyway!

Right - this is all just your view, then - no actual evidence?

Plenty of LEAs in the SE don’t have enough state school places.

No, no need to worry.

Many sixth forms, including locally, are having to merge across schools as numbers are so low.

More pupils are a real bonus.

I was at school in the last century. Several young women and men moved from a private school to a state 6th form. I know of several who have done so more recently.

Nothing new, and to blame or be concerned about it because of this government is exaggeration of the possible impact.

Not much more money to increase class sizes.

Which LEA has no state places? Most privately educated kids aren’t going anywhere. If you can’t afford it you can’t afford it. Private schools are businesses and preps closing are the same as other business .Small preps were under pressure long before vat.

What is the evidence on whether state-funded sixth forms can accommodate an additional class or classes? My child’s state sixth form and putative sixth form for the younger one, probably could. They are up to their PAN but not up their physical capacity and more students mean more money …

Some private school pupils have always switched. I don't believe that 20% more will switch as a result of VAT and it won't have an impact on state school pupils in the vast majority of areas. Birth rates are decreasing and most sixth forms want more pupils.

You think that doesn’t cost any money?

Most sixth forms attached to schools have very small class sizes so could easily squeeze a few more in.

This is financial fantasy though. The parents of the private school kids already fund the state sector, so the more that go back in, the less money per head in the state sector.

Only a small margin of kids need to switch/not go to make the VAT policy a net cost to the taxpayer. At my DD’s school, applications were down nearly 50% this year. This won’t feed through until September, but likely will outweigh the amount the VAT raises. We’re in an LEA, like many in the south of England, where there are no state places available. Do you think this is going to be an excellent policy? It’s counterproductive, poorly costed and badly administered.

I’m sure you can explain to the admin staff and dinner ladies at the small preps that will close that it’s a really great win against the toffs though. 👍

It is what is. It's dome now so that's it. It will play out however it plays out. Like it or not lots of people will zero skin in the game are really enjoying this.

I live near an 6th form college that students travel over 20 miles to get into so there is capacity locally at 6th form.

It’s a good policy. Any extra money is good for state education. Only a tiny number of kids are privately educated and only a tiny number of them will be going into the state sector. Numbers are falling in the state sector and extra bums on seats will be a good thing. Private education is a luxury,if you want it you make proper contingency plans. Any parents who haven’t only have themselves to blame if they are now in the same boat as everybody else- unable to afford private education.

Ah well — why do you care if the government sells you a policy that is counterproductive for the state sector anyway then? Is it just about sticking it to the 20% of less wealthy kids in private who will have to move into state? Because who cares about kids’ education anyway, amirite?