Couple held in Iran

I don’t believe they were in any way naive, I think they were headstrong and idiotic. They thought they knew best!

I mean it's like swimming outside the shark nets in Sharm el Sheikh, pasted in the guts and blood of dead fish and then being surprised you get eaten by a shark.

They will be held as leverage by Iran, who will no doubt demand a prisoner exchange for their release (or other significant concession).

Utter madness. Seems the Iran authorities were on to them pretty quickly and they just played into their hands. They were 'gathering information' obviously innocuously they have given the Iranian authorities arguably 'legitimate' grounds to detain them.

I would say I have empathy for them rather than sympathy. They are no doubt going through hell and it could continue for years. They seem like harmless decent people just woefully naive and lacking any form of real world risk awareness.

I sometimes wonder if the world is going to through a collective stupidity.

They fucked around and found out 🤷🏻‍♀️

😁

@LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway Maybe we cold hearted posters can all form a club and all wear "crowing about our lack of compassion" badges to prove our membership? The sanctimonious compassionate posters might need smelling salts at the thought though.

100% this.

I do not care about this pair. Genuinely 100% Do NOT. CARE. I don't know them, I don't want to know them, they have brought it on themselves, and I don't care if no-one helps them. They chose to do what they did, and they can 100% deal with the consequences.

As I said, I save my compassion for people who deserve it, not people who are so desperate for fame and social media views, and for people to look at them, that they will buzz off to another country, and ignore and break all the rules for internet 'likes.' Pathetic, attention-seeking, wannabes who need to deal with the shit they have landed themselves in. There is no 'expected internet talk' from me. It's exactly how I feel. And I have said as much to everyone I have spoken to about it in real life.

Like a pp said, I don't wish harm or anything bad on them, I don't wish anything on them. I simply do not care about them. If this is me 'crowing about my lack of compassion,' then I'll wear that badge.

I do feel sorry for them, they will be going through hell. But they were unbelievably naive/stupid. People do visit Iran as tourists (I personally wouldn't, but people do). But entering overland, on a tourist visa? And then travelling around interviewing locals and asking them if they're happy? The naivity is mind-boggling, tbh. And then being in their 50s also just makes me think... what the fuck were you thinking?

But, it's too late now. I hope they are ok, and hope even more that they haven't put the locals they talked to at risk. There's so much of this on social media, westerners traveling to dangerous or repressive countries, apparently thinking that they're immune from the risks because of their passports. Often they get away with it.

So, hopefully they'll get released, after however much time it takes. Being charged with espionage when the Iranian regime are angry with the UK for the support of Israel isn't good though. Particularly as Trump is unlikely to be interested in getting involved.

@GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples

I'm getting a bit fed up with being told that those of us whose hearts are not breaking on behalf of this pair are terrible people.

The fact is I think they are some of the most stupid, arrogant fools on this face on the planet and I have very little sympathy for them. I also do not wish any
taxpayers money to be wasted on them but if their family want to crowdfund to secure their release then I wish them luck.

I would say all of this to their faces.

BUT I wish them no harm, torment, torture, injury or death. I do not believe this is me "crowing about my lack of compassion".

I disagree. I can't think of anything more likely to get you arrested for espionage than travelling around Iran interviewing people and gathering information to publish.

You're just too kind hearted.
I'm someone who you think doesn't exist. I think about them being incarcerated and I still have no sympathy whatsoever because they completely brought it upon themselves. It's completely different to climbing a dangerous mountain etc because in those circumstances there isn't official government advice telling you not to do it. Obviously if someone decided to climb against all weather forecasts and advice from other experienced climbers and got injured or killed I wouldn't have any sympathy for them either.
I have sympathy for this moronic couple's family who by all accounts told them not to do it, but none at all for the two individuals, and I'd say that to their face.
It's the height of idiocy and selfishness to waft around thinking that because you're a hippy dippy loony that somehow FCO advice doesn't apply to you.

I'm one of the Brits who went to Iran. Eight years ago.
But the last few months in particular have seen an exponential increase in the risk of going there, and Brits and Americans in particular are NOT going now. The FCO advice is very different from when I went.

I consider myself an intrepid traveller and I've been to quite a few difficult countries, travelling alone and independently. Iran was my favourite of them all, but I wouldn't go now, and nor are any of the tour companies.

Quoting the number of detentions from 1980 to 2023 is entirely irrelevant to what's been happening in Iran over the last six months, and the risk now.

This. I don't think they have been arrested because of anything specific that they did; they will have been earmarked for the hostage pile the day they arrived at the border. The Iranian police were probably laughing their heads off knowing that they were going to pick them up once their visits to multiple cities had established a (paper-thin, of course) set of evidence of "spying".

They would have been likely tracked/noted since getting that visa. The gov was probably sitting rubbing their hands with glee at some more people to take hostage and get some more money or whatever they’ll come up with. Having a visa doesn’t stop you being arrested or jailed.

I have compassion for them for the situation they are in. That's human nature.

But that doesn't mitigate the fact they themselves out themselves i that situation and are idiots for doing so 🤷‍♀️

That is a bad faith argument there.

As I said tourism by it's nature often brings positive benefits to a country, both to the people who may never get to see an example of another way of living and to those with either a preconceived view of people in those countries, it can be a two-way educational experience that changes lives and perspectives. Travelling is almost aways educational. You can argue whether complete isolationism or tourism is good for any country.

I am imagining that that couple, they are British, they are one of our own, locked in a cell - I don't know what the conditions are like, but I imagine they are not great. Being possibly interrogated, possibly not getting to speak to their families, not speaking the language, scared, anxious, maybe hungry or cold. And I cannot imagine myself thinking about that and then running to internet to say how stupid they are and crowing about how little compassion I have.

And in any case I really do not believe it. I think it is just the expected internet talk these days.

People know the risks of travelling without insurance - then want a go fund me to pay thousands of £££s medical bills.

Unforeseen risk is completely different to foreseen risk.

If you go skiing for example it's a risk.

It's safer if you stay on carved out runs.

If you go off piste especially where avalanches are warned to be likely you can't act too surprised if you get caught in an avalanche. You can count yourself lucky if you weren't.

And if you didn't pay the extra insurance for extreme sports then you can't be surprised you get landed with a a huge evacuation flights bill for being rescued off a mountain as you've been caught in said avalanche.

Same as travel to unsafe countries.

You take a risk. You decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For this couple the risk of imprisonment was obviously worth it.

That's their choice.

But don't act the innocent party because you played with fire and got burned and don't blame those lucky enough not to have got burned before you did.

And they won't get billed for the costs to Britain to deal with this. The costa to them personally is the consequences for their choice of actions.

As someone unthread so eloquently put

Play stupid games .......

They completely failed to understand the folly of interviewing local people and posting the results on line.

Going to the country discreetly and not drawing attention to themselves would have been risky.

What they actually did was absolute lunacy, and almost guaranteed to end up with a charge of spying.

I don’t think they deserve to rot in an Iranian jail, but the decision making here beggars belief

The comparison with those who undertake dangerous sports is a fallacy. Those people tend to spend huge amounts of time mitigating risk

The whole world already knew about the dreadful plight of Afghani women and girls. Your woman's naff vanity project would have made bugger all difference.

How did you get that from that statement?

Not mentioning compassion is not the same as having no compassion.

To be fair, people do many things that are potentially dangerous and they are aware of the risks - but people still do things.

Most of the time, those risks don't result in horrendous outcomes.
But in this case, it did. And who would want the outcome they are in at the moment?

Despite our differences in background, language, and belief, this gesture said everything: I see you. I honour you. We are connected," the caption read

Oh what a shower of self aggrandising twaddle. I suspect the 'kind hearted mullah' was desperate for them to bugger off, but was too polite to say so. He will now be dreading the knock on the door from the Iranian police.

Through their conceit these middle class morons have endangered the lives of every Iranian they have 'connected' with.

So compassion for Western tourists who fall foul of the authorities but no compassion for the actual people who suffer under these regimes? Interesting.

Honestly, you sound as naïve and as frankly (putting it kindly) as innocent as they do. Let's put it in a clear sentence. If they were aware of the risks- beyond being enthralled by their own hubris- then they simply would not have done it.

And do you have anything to say about the risks they have brought to Iranian nationals? Are you not - quite simply- embarrassed at defending them? I would be.

Yes, we're aware of the risks.

So they made a risk assessment. They didn't go in thinking it couldn't happen to them.

But we also know the rewards of meeting incredible people, hearing their stories, and seeing the breathtaking landscapes of these regions could far outweigh the fear," she said. "From the vast deserts of Iran to the towering peaks of Pakistan, we hope to share the beauty, hospitality, and humanity that often go unnoticed."

In other posts, the couple said they had been "overwhelmed by the sense of connection" in Iran, while another picture claimed to show Mrs Foreman with a "kind-hearted mullah" at the Madrasa Naseriyeh in Isfahan. "Despite our differences in background, language, and belief, this gesture said everything: I see you. I honour you. We are connected," the caption read

It does sound interesting. It would have been great research had they not been detained.