If you buy a massive 4×4 SUV...

My enyaq is the same. It has self park. I've never used it though.

I have just googled to see the description of my car it's a compact SUV crossover so I don't know where I am on here. I need something bigger but can't afford to run anything more expensive. Anyway I can park it very well in a parking space but I like to be on the end of a line for the baby seat.
It's a workhorse for gardening/ handy man/ childcare service we are. Sometimes I run my son to the pub in it and his wheelchair fits in the boot without having to take the wheels off and us all get covered in mud.
Children are so much bigger these days sometimes I have 5 grandchildren to pick up etc. can't stick them in the boot like in the 70s.

I need 4x4 with good ground clearance so SUV is my best option. The only other thing is a 4x4 van with raised suspension but I’ve had one before and they are not at all comfortable.

"I was simply explaining the realities of a ‘free market’ to someone naive enough to believe they exist."

Your explanation was tosh.

Choices exist - you seem to deny this.

Thats fine and you can happily die on that pointless hill, but the reality is, is that cars of all shapes and sizes that are NOT SUVs exist.

And people can freely choose what they want to buy - just because peoples choices dont fit your narrow world view doesnt make their selection wrong.

Car makers will continue to sell what people buy - whether thats morphed SUVs from the USA or Jupiter, if people want them and buy them, then thats what the market will cater for.

And thats what they're doing with continued sales of SUVs - because people demand them.

Yeah, I just wrote to another poster that when I looked a year or so ago, the MG was the only one.

Things change, and I’m delighted there is more choice now. To be fair, several of those models are brand new.

I don’t need glasses, just clearly more time to search for a car I no longer need to purchase.

I agree re the Skodas - great cars.

I would never buy a BMW or Mercedes because round me they are exclusively driven by twats and the indicators never seem operational.

Having said that, I last looked a couple of years ago and couldn’t find any electric estates except the MG and I wasn’t convinced of their reliability. Having just had a quick google, it seems many of the classic estates are now found in electric - fantastic. Even less reason for anyone to own an SUV.

I would never buy an SUV unless it really was my only option - I’d rather go for a van - so you can save your ‘fashion’ sneers for someone else. I was simply explaining the realities of a ‘free market’ to someone naive enough to believe they exist.

Electric car for your needs - dont exist?

VW ID7 is one.

More here:

www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/nine-electric-estates-available-now-or-near-future

Fossil fuel estates are all but extinct?

You might wanna look here:

www.topgear.com/car-reviews/find/body/estate/fuel/petrol

"Free market choice doesn’t exist when there is only one option."

LOL

You obviously need glasses - SUVs are not the only car option available today.

What you are pointing out is utter codswallop.

Land Rovers have been around for donkeys years (Rover introduced them in 1948). Nissan and Toyota have been doing them for years too. Isuzu trooper was 1981.

Farmers put trailers on them for their livestock and other bits. And have done for years.

I’m sorry but this is such nonsense @Organically

Even fossil fuel estates are all but extinct.

No they are not.

Skoda sells the Octavia and Superb. Both have HUGE boots (more cubic space than most SUVs) and massive legroom (there’s a reason why the Superb is so popular as a taxi).

Then you have the Toyota Corolla estate, and the BMW 3 and 5 series, the Mercedes E Class, I could go on

People buy SUVs because there is no other choice anymore for those who need more spacious vehicles.

Nonsense. People buy SUVs because they don’t want to look at the other choices when something “rugged” and “chunky” catches their eye. They buy them for the perception of safety, size, and to feel “high up” when driving.

Free market choice doesn’t exist when there is only one option.

why do people on Mumsnet state this kind of thing? There isn’t “only one option”, there are dozens of estate cars. It’s just that people are dictated by fashion and don’t want to admit it.

@JohnofWessex

”Car makers are not selling estate cars”

Ah that old trope again.

really?

So Toyota are still selling the Corolla Sports Hybrid (that’s an estate).

Skoda literally has the two best in class estate cars with the Octavia and the Superb, wonderful cars.

BMW still sell a 3 series and 5 series estate last time I looked.

Mercedes still sell an E Class estate; you can buy it with a six cylinder engine even!

Audi still sell the A4 and A6 Avant (their fancy word for estate)

Do I need to go on?

People love to say “manufacturers don’t sell estates any more” when what they really meant to say is “manufacturers are making lots of cars which I want , but I need an excuse to explain why I buy that over an estate car”.

Oh! Thanks.

Nice.

@Thirteenblackcat it’s a wind up! Ignore…

I hate selfish people like this

From memory… Fewer people had cars. Roads were maintained to a higher standard. Cars had big bouncy tyres that were better able to absorb imperfections. Cars and, in particular, tractors were smaller so the roads didn’t get their verges chewed up and covered in mud. Safety standards were lower so more people could be crammed into smaller cars. It wasn’t that unusual to squeeze five children on the back seat with no seat belts, never mind child seats.

I could go on.

I want an electric car big enough for 2 kids with large car seats, a dog and too much camping gear that isn’t an SUV.

They don’t exist.

Even fossil fuel estates are all but extinct.

People buy SUVs because there is no other choice anymore for those who need more spacious vehicles.

Free market choice doesn’t exist when there is only one option.

And the reason SUVs have become the only option is the American tax and safety legislation.

You don’t need to buy Apple because Microsoft and Asus and Samsung exist. That’s the equivalent of saying, I won’t buy a BMW - ok have at a Fiat or Ford.

What I’m pointing out is like if they all phased out desktops, forcing you into a laptop when you really didn’t want one.

A fat tum.

food baby?

@Organically

With respect, I think you're misunderstanding me.

As i said, I partially agree with what you said about US designs coming here and yes agree the UK market is small.

The fact remains, people are choosing to buy them. No marketing strategy in the world would compel me to buy a product from Apple.

Similarly, no marketing strategy can "force" or coerce people into buying SUVs.

Thats evidenced by small car purchases too.

So whatever the transatlantic sales/design virtues may be, people buying SUVs are doing so because they want to - not because they're forced to.

That is free market choice at work. If people didnt buy them, would OEMs still make and ship them to the UK? Course not - they'd be out of business.

You misunderstand.

The OEMs don’t give a toss about the UK market - it’s far too small. They design for America and we get whatever they make.

Americans want trucks (which SUCs fall within) partly because of their weird ‘Murica, freedom nostalgia crap and mostly because they are much cheaper to buy than saloons or hatchbacks. They are cheaper to buy because the tax system favours them, and safety laws are less strict. That’s why the cybertruck isn’t sold in Europe - it passes US truck safety laws but not ours.

That article is copy generated by the industry as part of the millions they spend persuading the customers what they should want.

The fact that UK drivers pay a premium for SUVs is neither here nor there - OEMs do not design for us. They design for America (and to a lesser extent, Asia & Europe - tweak the skins to make them complaint).

If you think our tiny car market has any influence on the designs available, I’d like to discuss a bridge I have for sale.

Free market is something advertisers like to help us pretend we have but it’s all down to their profit margins - not our ‘choice.

Partially agree, however the fact remains that the freedom to choose what to buy is the thrust behind the demand for SUVs.

https://www.dacemotorgroup.co.uk/blog/the-rise-of-suvs-in-the-uk-trends-and-insights

Granted this link is but one perspective, but you are sorely mistaken if you think tax and legislation alone drive this push - especially when a lot of SUVs these days fall into the higher VED bracket above £40k.

People are buying them despite that financial hit - ergo, demand is the driver for SUVs, legislation and taxation most certainly arent top dog in that race.

Actually that’s not the case. The real reason we have a market flooded with the SUVs is that the safety laws and taxes in the US are different for trucks - basically more lax and cheaper.

So the designers concentrate on making things that appeal to the US market - ie on truck type chassis - and slightly reskin them for Europe.

So it’s driven (excuse the pun) by legislation and tax, neither of which offer a free market.

The OEMs then spend millions on advertising, persuading us that we want them. I can see it’s worked especially well for some on this thread.

To add some balance the worst parking I see is by small car owners who just swerve into a parking space making no attempt to straighten up and happy to leave the car at an angle over the side markings .

Obviously you know nothing about free market economics.

Supply and demand.

Car manufacturers invest heavily in product research to supply vehicles that people want to buy.

And overwhelmingly its SUVs, ergo, car makers make more of them.

Its called freedom to choose. What will you ban next, peoples thoughts? They way they blink or fart?

Banned outright - LOL. Gotta be the single most stupid comment/argument on this thread, among many of the anti-SUV brigade.

Thankfully though, people that want them, will still buy them - so yeh, carry on moaning about it because your mythical ban aint happening 😂