Private schools extra holidays - how does this not harm outcomes

Absolutely, less is actually more, I think we overload children in state schools so they really struggle to retain the sheer amount that is thrown at them on such a rigorous basis.

Agree with the comment about parental input.

Family member with child in large state secondary school.

Excellent parental input + school program meant that she achieved a grade 9 sitting a GCSE a year early.

My two have had 17 weeks holiday since lower prep and it's fine. They did however finish at 4pm from Y3 upwards. In senior school the lunch is very long as most clubs were run then so most kids could get the school bus home.

An extra 3 weeks holiday compared to state schools is neither here nor there IMO.

If you're trying to use this as a proof that term time holidays are fine, then it's not. Because missing school when everyone else is there inevitability means you've missed something that won't be repeated.

If you're looking at it thinking that state schools could take more holiday. I agree. I think we have some of the shortest holidays and most children would benefit from a longer break and would ultimately learn better.
I'd go for 8-9 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks half term, a month at Christmas and, 2-3 weeks at Easter.
I think children would learn better with more time to relax.

my daughters class size in capped at 1:10 for English but 1:6 on the 2 days a week she does school in French. The kids are moved along at their own pace as the teacher can give personal attention, as there is also a TA in those class sizes. There is also virtually no disruption during the lessons as poor behaviour isn’t tolerated and a child causing disruption would be asked to leave. There is also very engaged parents and being the most academic in the class is a badge of honour not being bullied. She was at a private school before in another country and it wasn’t as good, class size 1:20 less academically competitive. She did well in her first school but she is absolutely flying at this school.

To follow on, the intensity around homework, plus small class sizes (10-15 in the DC school), TA for every class even at this small size, children with additional learning needs accessing paid for support on a regular basis, strict expectations around discipline…)

As others have said OP, the days are much more intense. The ‘school hours’ on paper may look similar to the local state schools but expectations surrounding homework and norms around extracurricular are much higher. My two are always at the point of collapse by the (longer) holidays.

Average school day for my DC in year 1 + 3

06.45 Up, shower, teeth, dress
07.15 breakfast
07.45 30 minutes homework and/or music practice before school
08.15 Leave for school
08.45-15.30 school
15.30-16.30 A different extracurricular club every day at school. This is the norm for their cohort (ball sports, drama, choir, cubs, fencing, cooking, art, tennis etc)
17.00 Home
17.00-18.00 Homework
18.30 Dinner
19.00 Bath, story, bed

Literally no down time at aside from playtime at school and their clubs (which they choose and enjoy) Factor in also norms around each child doing an instrument or two, weekend sports and lots of encouragement to enter external competitions in drama, writing, music etc

There is also much more homework and often project work too. My daughter is at a private IB school and she has monthly and yearly projects - this year her project is a dragonfly education app which she has chosen and last year she designed and produced a cookbook. They also have summer holiday projects too. Last year was a strategy board game on Roman history. But choose the school you like the best don’t worry about holiday times.

Research by the EEF indicates that home circumstances are 4 times more influential on progress than anything a school can do.

Quite a lot of academic advantage in private schools is not coming from the school at all but from the home environment.

Let's assume that in a class of 15 (max) in private vs a class of 30 (state) you effectively gain 10 minutes per lesson/hour in dicking about time - calming the class, behaviour management, organisation even writing the title/finding all the fucking kids for the glue sticks that's an hour a day gained. A whole day a week of extra learning time. In 5 weeks you've 'gained' a whole academic week which can account for better results or extra holidays.

Your 3rd example only has one extra week holiday than any school I've worked in. Imagine 38 weeks of learning where you've actually gained 7 whole weeks of education just because you've not got the incessant and invidious low level behaviour distracting the teacher and other kids in the classroom.

My colleague's son was removed from a couple of private schools because he wasn't clever enough and had to find a less academic school.

I went to a private school. It was essentially 9 to 5 except Wednesdays which finished early afternoon. Clubs were lunchtime or after 5. Summer holidays were a couple of weeks longer than state, Easter and Christmas one week longer, but half terms were only two days.

Occasionally had to go in Saturdays for sports but it wasn’t regular.

Generally smaller class sizes and practically zero disruption were probably the main contributors to good outcomes.

@FatAgain

Social problems : worst behaviour I’ve witnessed has been in private schools

Most difficult parents : private school

Most paperwork (a lot of it meaningless) : private

Largest number of children/fewest adults : private

I was once left alone in a playground/one 18 year old unqualified gap student with a school full of 2 to 7 year olds (over 100 children with many that needed a 1:5 adult ratio) for about 30 minutes.

Yep. This also.

And they will remove anyone who isn’t likely to pass. State schools can’t remove DC as easily

Posted too soon.

Additionally, to get this result, they are selecting in other ways. I don’t know how, because I don’t know which school, but they absolutely are, otherwise this is impossible.

They may also be doing the the iBacc, which state schools aren’t allowed to do anymore.

A decent private school will work you hard. That’s the basic truth. My children had daily homework throughout prep. Lockdown - virtually uninterrupted education there. Even factoring in theatre trips and fixture days, they’re well ahead.

But it’s not hard to see why: No real crowd management, no social problems, engaged parents, small classes, and a fraction of the paperwork for teachers.

At my husbands school (and the school his little brother now attends) it was due to hot housing, no play based learning, no carpet time etc.

They aren't a selective school, yet get 100% through English and Maths GCSE every year

They are selective. If they’re a private school, they select by parental income.

And in terms of holidays, I think it’s something to do with having a longer school day than state - so they get longer holidays. At least that was the original idea. However I think staff are far more stretched - emotionally and workload - and NEED that holiday, more than a state school teacher.

@Eranie

Just my opinion, but I’ve worked in two private schools with very good reputations.

Behind the scenes, I think most parents would be shocked at what goes on.

I’ve also worked in a few different state schools, and I think the school that I’ve enjoyed working in the most and had the best ethos was a state school.

IMO, private schools are very good at ‘show’. They are run as a business, so they tend to get that bit right. Inspections are not as stringent as OFSTED. They do have good facilities and excellent extra curricular activities. However teachers are often extremely overworked, a difficult work culture because of it’s business ethos, very demanding parents who are often given in to to (even if they are wrong), even though class sizes are smaller, private schools are struggling due to the VAT hit and (this is Early Years) ratios are not adhered to (sometimes dangerously). I’d don’t think quality of the teachers employed are better than state schools - the best teachers I’ve seen are mainly state school teachers.

I do think a good private school at senior school level is worth the money, but my goodness do some very, very careful research…

This

Plus - get over it

IMO, academic attainment is all about parental involvement and study habits at home. That’s the reason a lot of Indian/ Chinese children do well academically. They study every day at home (after school).

It’s simple, the school day is slightly longer and with classes of 16 compared to 30 plus in state schools children get far more support.