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AIBU?

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Old(er) men creeping on young women [at work]

108 replies

FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 20:31

Today I visited a shop and a lovely young woman, non-native English greeted us [was with DS2].

Later, noticed an older man talking to her about her weekend plans, specifically valentines plans and repeatedly looking down at her chest. I heard comments such as "sure someone must be taking you out", "you're clearly very worthy" etc...
I went over and interrupted, asking for her help. When she broke free and asked what I wanted, I said "nothing, he was just being creepy". I had hesitated interrupting for a minute later than intended due to trying to check whether she did feel uncomfortable, but she was being nothing but polite and friendly back. When I replied to her to say I wanted nothing, I was just interrupting because he was being creepy, she hugged me and said, yes, thank you. And repeated that twice.

I now regret not stepping in a moment sooner. And also, not saying more loudly when I interrupted, so the man could hear.

Would you have stepped in?
Would you have said anything loudly so the man could overhear?

It's stayed with me. Younger me remembers these interactions. Felt uncomfortable, brushed them off, entertained them.
Nowadays, being older, happy to intersect.
Hoping to bring my boys up to never repeat this behaviour.

AIBU: Should not interrupt/jump in
AINBU: Should always jump in and help younger/fellow females?

OP posts:
Ddakji · 14/02/2025 21:47

Your OP was absolutely fine because all the details show the power imbalance in play.

Well done for stepping in, you did the right thing.

lnks · 14/02/2025 21:42

The age or nationality of either party is irrelevant.

Sexual harassment of all and any woman by men needs to stop.

FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:42

Catza · 14/02/2025 21:35

I don't need to describe myself as anything. I very rarely get asked where I am from and I certainly wouldn't expect people to refer to me as immigrant, non-english or whatever. I trust that people who make my acquaintance will simply say "I met a woman the other day" and don't feel compelled to infer that "my culture" is somehow different from theirs and make it my defining feature.
In your shoes, I would have probably come up with a random thing I "needed help with" so as not to make the woman more uncomfortable than she needed to be and also to give her an opportunity to go back to the conversation with the bloke if she indeed wanted to. But it's hard to say as I was not there and I can only judge what happened by your (wildly improbable) story.

But that's exactly what I did. I interrupted, she came, I said I needed nothing, just thought he was creepy. She had the opportunity to return to him, but instead thanked and hugged me, then stayed with me?

OP posts:
FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:41

Hiddenmnetter · 14/02/2025 21:34

This feels very disingenuous. Anyone, anywhere, in a land that isn’t their native territory will be more cautious and more facilitating. In an attempt to be open to other cultures, a “benefit of the doubt” mindset tends to rule- which in this case could well have been “this feels creepy but maybe this is normal cause no one is objecting, and I don’t want to cause a fuss so I’ll just tolerate it.”

Cultural rules, norms and mores aren’t written anywhere- you are always playing a guessing game. I still remember to this day landing at Heathrow, and riding the Piccadilly line to “Cockfosters” and laughing out loud at the name (yes I know it was juvenile) and smiling at the person in the carriage opposite me. It wasn’t until later that I recounted to someone the alarmed and hostile look I received when they explained “don’t make eye contact with people on the tube.” It’s not about “forriners” being weak or dependent, but having a natural disadvantage due to navigating unknown territory! How the hell do you know not to make eye contact on the tube? THERE SHOULD BE SIGNS.

Thank you. Exactly this. I've also lived overseas and genuinely meant no ill-intent of the phrase non-native. I think it was relevant because of how she was being polite and entertaining. My younger niece may well have excused herself, knowing he was a creep- or felt trapped anyway due to being young/in experienced. I really don't know but it's made me think twice about what younger women are experiencing, but ESPECIALLY those who haven't the cultural reference we have if born here. Different country, different norms.

OP posts:
AMurderofMurderingCrows · 14/02/2025 21:40

Yes, I would have intervened and said to the woman, oh is this your dad?

I will always intervene if I think someone is being made uncomfortable. I'm not the most subtle sometimes but I'm still standing to tell the tale (just).

TheRealTina · 14/02/2025 21:36

I have seen worse, to English girls, just from the age of 17 to 19. Worked in a cafe once and one 80 year old proposed to be a sugar daddy to one of my youngsters, described his offer in its entirety, to visit her in her uni city, to buy her a small car and other things in return for something. It was totally crazy. The man looked about 80, and the way she described how he spoke to her, could not be a joke. Who is this normal man to harass sexually ( even though verbally ) a 18 year old as a joke...she said he also was repeatedly looking her up and down multiple times

Catza · 14/02/2025 21:35

FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:27

Thank you for your input. How do you describe yourself living in a country you were not born in, and if it is a second language- how do you describe that?

I felt it was relevant, for reasons I've mentioned and maybe the fear of patronising made me hold back for longer than I intended. What would you have done in that situation?

I don't need to describe myself as anything. I very rarely get asked where I am from and I certainly wouldn't expect people to refer to me as immigrant, non-english or whatever. I trust that people who make my acquaintance will simply say "I met a woman the other day" and don't feel compelled to infer that "my culture" is somehow different from theirs and make it my defining feature.
In your shoes, I would have probably come up with a random thing I "needed help with" so as not to make the woman more uncomfortable than she needed to be and also to give her an opportunity to go back to the conversation with the bloke if she indeed wanted to. But it's hard to say as I was not there and I can only judge what happened by your (wildly improbable) story.

FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:35

Thank you to those understanding why I included non-native refer. I regret it now but genuinely felt it was relevant. She was being so friendly and conversational to him which is why I hesitated for a while.

I am interested how many people intervene in these situations (whatever nationality), the types of responses from the men, and women who have been targeted. I'm not necessarily a crusader, but it's made me think twice. It's usually older women in this particular shop. She is a new volunteer.

OP posts:
Hiddenmnetter · 14/02/2025 21:34

Catza · 14/02/2025 21:23

You can disagree. But again, your store manager made an assumption since none of you actually spoke to this women. As a "non-english" I can assure you we are perfectly capable and don't need patronising by the "natives".

This feels very disingenuous. Anyone, anywhere, in a land that isn’t their native territory will be more cautious and more facilitating. In an attempt to be open to other cultures, a “benefit of the doubt” mindset tends to rule- which in this case could well have been “this feels creepy but maybe this is normal cause no one is objecting, and I don’t want to cause a fuss so I’ll just tolerate it.”

Cultural rules, norms and mores aren’t written anywhere- you are always playing a guessing game. I still remember to this day landing at Heathrow, and riding the Piccadilly line to “Cockfosters” and laughing out loud at the name (yes I know it was juvenile) and smiling at the person in the carriage opposite me. It wasn’t until later that I recounted to someone the alarmed and hostile look I received when they explained “don’t make eye contact with people on the tube.” It’s not about “forriners” being weak or dependent, but having a natural disadvantage due to navigating unknown territory! How the hell do you know not to make eye contact on the tube? THERE SHOULD BE SIGNS.

Maray1967 · 14/02/2025 21:30

And indeed we knew that there were other women on their own in that part of the shop that day - he targeted a young foreigner, the disgusting pervert.

CareerChange24 · 14/02/2025 21:29

Catza · 14/02/2025 20:55

This would have been a better story had you not felt compelled to mention her being a "forriner". That's not even remotely relevant.

Maybe she felt it relevant as I often see non native speakers as being more vulnerable, so felt for her even more.

chilling19 · 14/02/2025 21:29

I stepped in on a bus when a young female Chinese student was being harassed by a large drunken man. I could see she was turned away from him tight up against the window and he kept shifting closer, pushing his leg against her. After I intervened, he got up left the bus. The non-native issue was also present in this case - she was trying not to offend but obviously did not know how to handle it. So,well done OP.

Blueberrymuffin8 · 14/02/2025 21:29

echt · 14/02/2025 20:59

What does the man's age have to do with anything?

Or her being "non-native"?

Isn't it obvious to you? Surely , you're not that naive?

Maray1967 · 14/02/2025 21:28

I was perfectly capable living in another country at 18 - but I have no difficulty in understanding that many other women would feel more vulnerable in a country where the language is not their first.

FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:27

Catza · 14/02/2025 21:23

You can disagree. But again, your store manager made an assumption since none of you actually spoke to this women. As a "non-english" I can assure you we are perfectly capable and don't need patronising by the "natives".

Thank you for your input. How do you describe yourself living in a country you were not born in, and if it is a second language- how do you describe that?

I felt it was relevant, for reasons I've mentioned and maybe the fear of patronising made me hold back for longer than I intended. What would you have done in that situation?

OP posts:
Maray1967 · 14/02/2025 21:26

Catza · 14/02/2025 21:23

You can disagree. But again, your store manager made an assumption since none of you actually spoke to this women. As a "non-english" I can assure you we are perfectly capable and don't need patronising by the "natives".

No assumption - that was what we were told by her tutor.

FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:23

BIossomtoes · 14/02/2025 21:17

Would you have said anything loudly so the man could overhear?

Only if I was prepared to have my lights punched out.

Yes, this I what I have been wondering. If they could react badly. I feel torn between making the moral cause and not inciting conflict. And how do others feel in those situations? Has anythings bad come of it or are the men too shocked to he challenged?

It was the fact that she hugged me and repeatedly thanked me. And also stayed by me for quite the while. And gave my son a present from the shop - she said she would pay but I didn't let her. He was a creep and I just wish I'd stepped in the moment I realised, not the 1-2 minutes after because she was being friendly and conversational with him.

OP posts:
Catza · 14/02/2025 21:23

Maray1967 · 14/02/2025 21:19

No, I disagree. I think it is an even bigger issue when the woman is not local. I took a phone call years ago working in retail from a university tutor reporting an unpleasant incident her student newly arrived from abroad had had in our shop. We were all shocked and the store manager commented on how awful it was that she had felt so uncertain and nervous that she hadn’t asked for help from any of the staff.

You can disagree. But again, your store manager made an assumption since none of you actually spoke to this women. As a "non-english" I can assure you we are perfectly capable and don't need patronising by the "natives".

Maray1967 · 14/02/2025 21:19

Catza · 14/02/2025 20:55

This would have been a better story had you not felt compelled to mention her being a "forriner". That's not even remotely relevant.

No, I disagree. I think it is an even bigger issue when the woman is not local. I took a phone call years ago working in retail from a university tutor reporting an unpleasant incident her student newly arrived from abroad had had in our shop. We were all shocked and the store manager commented on how awful it was that she had felt so uncertain and nervous that she hadn’t asked for help from any of the staff.

TomatoSandwiches · 14/02/2025 21:18

You did the right thing op.

BIossomtoes · 14/02/2025 21:17

Would you have said anything loudly so the man could overhear?

Only if I was prepared to have my lights punched out.

FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:14

Anonym00se · 14/02/2025 21:10

I would feel that if my own dd moved abroad and had limited language in that country, that she would be even more vulnerable than a native young woman.

OP you did exactly the right thing!

Thank you. You understood my use of non-native as it was intended. And articulated it well.

OP posts:
FeFiFamPho · 14/02/2025 21:13

This reply has been deleted

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Okay, apologies. All intended in good faith. Maybe don't read on from here? First ever AIBU post. Now expecting a pile-on.
He was older. He was creepy.
She was non-native English (that's not a swear word).
The relevance in mentioning this is I feel she was extra polite/entertaining of him was possible to culture/language.

I am a choose love, open the borders, refugees welcome person. All culture, nationalities, let's make a rich tapestry of life.

If you choose to criticise on those elements, that's your choice. I felt it was relevant. Maybe an error, but if so, a genuine error not a malicious one.

OP posts:
Anonym00se · 14/02/2025 21:10

I would feel that if my own dd moved abroad and had limited language in that country, that she would be even more vulnerable than a native young woman.

OP you did exactly the right thing!

malmi · 14/02/2025 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.