DH and DSD(10)'s hygiene

Also possibly unpopular solution to make a deal with a 10 year old but.. could you say she needs to shower every other day, or 3 times a week for example, but it needs to be done properly? I feel like having a good wash less regularly would be better than grudgingly rinsing yourself daily!

Are you certain she can manage her hair? I'm just thinking that it wouldn't be as obvious she couldn't manage it until this sort of age, when the hair gets more oily.

Is she worrying about soap in her eyes? Would some mild shampoo help.

In my experience stuff like this was more about making it boring for her to drag it out and repeating it until done, as telling her she smells etc won't be helping.

Maybe take her shopping to a shop like Lush or similar to buy products she might like?

Some of this sounds a little bit like the 10 year old is boss. If she hasn’t washed properly then she goes back in, it isn’t a negotiation.

My DD (12) sometimes has days when she can’t be bothered, is too tired, it’s too cold. But she ends up washing, because I won’t quit until she does.

Mine also insists on long hair, she still has it cut. It’s needed to get rid of dead ends and to keep it healthy. Have you tried a mobile hairdresser that’ll come to you?

I was going to mention shopping for some fancy products for her but I see that’s already been mentioned. Is there a bath? Have you tried some bath bombs?

FWIW, I have found Mitchum antiperspirant to be amazing. It works so much better than the other brands.

You need to fight harder on this, for her sake. There will be tantrums and shouting but she will be at secondary school soon and kids will make her life an absolute misery if she smells.

She’s 10. Far too young for spa treatments, massage and nails!!! Good god what are u trying to turn her into?

@LemonExpert

I also don't think it is a sensory / ND issue as there was no evidence of this when she was younger.
I think it's a confidence/self esteem issue as well as laziness and wanting to test the boundaries

I wldnt discount sensory issues just bcos they haven't shown up previously OP. My niece only started avoiding at this age but had no issues prior.
It may not be something she's even able to verbalise - it may not be a pronounced like I hate the sensation of water - it could feel just aversive to her. In ND it often is v difficult being able to label feelings & physical sensations in oneself & "laziness" is often misunderstood in adhd where being overwhelmed by the task manifests itself in avoidance of them. Executive function issues in ND can make motivation & ability to carry out seemingly normal daily tasks like teeth brushing eg or showering washing a real challenge. There's also demand avoidance in ND where being able to carry out basic routine tasks that should come with ease are to others are in fact extremely difficult & aversive to an ND individual. It doesn't matter if the person is able to do other basic tasks with ease either. ND in girls especially can be very easily concealed & not show itself in the now outdated stereotype attached to the condition.

OP I was horribly embarrassed at age 12 when the nasty pupils at my all girls grammar school were whispering behind my back that I smelled. My mother hadn’t told me anything about cleanliness, deodorant, periods.. or anything else really. It’s a long time ago now, but I have never forgotten. So IMHO a little uncomfortableness at home is far better than public embarrassment.

It is a great pity but kids are not allowed anytime as 'kids' these days before they have to follow the peer-group and get ears pierced, buy lippy and perfumes, and all that goes with it. When I was 10 you could go a week without a bath and no one would even notice - because, give it an hour and a kid was dirty all over again. Times have changed so if you want to avoid the teasing you will have to get the daily showers going - but showers are fun, and can be made part of the process of growing up for 'big school' I am sure.

Could you figure out how long it takes for her to rinse her hair properly and send her into the bathroom with a playlist of songs of the same length to listen to?

Daily showering is absolutely not necessary for social cleanliness. (Yes some people in some jobs or with some medical conditions may need daily or more frequent showers / baths. For most people it's become a learned thing that feels good - when I was a child in the 80s baths were once or twice a week. People haven't changed so much since then that we need more frequent washing). It's arguably a waste of water. Too much washing can make smells worse because too much oil is removed from the skin so out bodies make more of it.

So for the ten year old: is she changing her underwear, including her socks / tights every day? Is she growing in the sense of her pants getting too tight and she needs some more. Is she wearing different shoes at the weekend to school? Are her school shoes able to dry properly between wears? Damp shoes can become very smelly.

Does she know how to identify dirty clothes? Does she have enough school uniform? Does she have at least some vests / t shirts in natural fibres?

Deodorant is worth recommending - see if you can find some unscented ones in case nobody else is known to be using it at school and she doesn't want to smell of strongly scented deodorant. Try different formats - I hate roll ones but like sprays, YMMV. Make sure she knows not to put deodorant on shaved skin in case she's trying to shave her armpits.

May be worth checking for tonsil stones if the smell might be coming from her mouth. Also worth making sure she sees a dentist as usual - to get advice on brushing / mouthwash / floss / bad breath.

If she's ok with seeing hairdressers they may be able to advise on washing frequency and how to do it - she may be more likely to take on board their advice than yours.

I would try very hard to make this a team effort: all of you against her silly body being smelly rather than adults against a child behaving badly. She's not being naughty, her body is changing in ways she isn't controlling.

If you're talking about washing try to depersonalise it - talk about how you'd wash babies or a dog etc because nobody over the age of about five wants to talk about how they wash themselves in a bath / shower. She won't want to hear the specifics of how you wash either. About the only specific I'd think of as important to convey is to not put soap on your vulva - just use water or an emollient (E45, Double base etc) as adolescent/adult vulval skin is much thinner and more sensitive than prepubescent children's.

Are there mirrors in the bathroom? Can she cover them? She might not like how her body looks at the minute. And the opposite - are there mirrors she could use to look at her changing body if she wants? Does she want to try wearing a crop top or bra rather than/ in addition to a vest? Does she know how to clean the bath / shower afterwards? (ie. Is she worried about being in trouble for not tidying up after herself when she doesn't know how to). Can she lock the door? Anybody have a habit of walking in on her?

@LemonExpert no I don’t think you should punish her whilst she is crying but once she has calmed down you should take her back to the bathroom and say we will need to wash your hair now as we have said it wasn’t done properly before and repeat the process until her hair is clean. Giving her space to process yes, but then asking her to join you for a movie before she did as you asked teaches her that she will get what she wants if she walks away.

100%

Your DH is being insensitive. It's clearly a big deal to her. Talk to her about it outside shower time. I'd try to get her counselling (urgently, so private) because this is setting her up for a lifetime of issues.

I don't think I can add much to the great advice already in this thread but I will share a personal perspective in case it's helpful... When I was a teenager I was a bit like the way you describe your DSD, if not worse; never washed properly; hair was always greasy because I didn't do it thoroughly; had acne but I would even (and I'm so ashamed of this now!) throw cleanser away to pretend I was using it rather than actually use it. As I got older I also wouldn't really address things like staying on top of shaving and grooming. My DM tried to support me with education, advice etc but her gentle supportive approach didn't work. She switched, understandably, to being pretty exasperated with me and insisted I have my hair cut short if I refused to look after it when long. This didn't work either. In fact I ended up going off to uni aged 18 still not maintaining basic hygiene properly. It was only when I started having romantic relationships in my late teens (I was a late bloomer) that I started to make an effort, but I struggled by then because I hadn't mastered some key basics and was too embarrassed to look things up. To be perfectly honest I'm now an adult in my 30s who lacks a lot of so-called grooming skills, albeit that I am pretty clean!

The reason I share this is to say that you can take all reasonable good steps as a parent but I think there's a limit to how much you can force or persuade a child to change. Kids have their own reasons. In my case I think my reluctance was a mixture of sensory stuff and also very low self-esteem - I saw myself as gross, saw my developing body and all male attention as gross, and convinced myself that my body didn't matter and that only my personality and school performance were worth investing in. I still struggle with this way of seeing things now to be honest.

Maybe the only thing my parents could have done that they didn't is open up more open, non-judgemental conversations with me about what I thought about my body and other people's. But these are tough conversations to have!

I hope your DSD finds her way through. It sounds like you care a lot and want the best for her, which is the best possible start.

Has she tried washing her hair over the side of the bath? That way she doesn't need to get wet. Often people with sensory issues struggle with the feeling of water on their faces.

How was the tantrum dealt with? Because storming off and shouting that sort of nonsense to get out of washing properly isn't on.

Keeping a brush in the shower helps too, she can give the hair a brush after conditioning, whilst stood under the water and it'll help get more of the product out.

Does she like swimming? Could you go swimming together and then you’d both need to shower so you could chat to her about how you wash your own hair, maybe that it’s important to wash twice after chlorine…?

She might do. My DD is 12 and her scalp gets really smelly if she doesn’t wash her hair daily.

She really doesn't need to wash her hair every day

Good sign that she messed with stuff and smelt better.

The hair does seem to be the sticking point. How does or would she like her hair? Any chance of rather than selling it as a rinse more of a how about me plait it overnight wet so you have nice crinkles/curls. Maybe offer to let her do yours too? “Hey I saw this tiktok about making wet curls want to try it? Ill
do yours mix you do mine?” How long’s dad’s hair any chance we could get in a few tiny loom band type bobbles funny play stuff taking it right back. Everyone’s just playing hair dresser. Or spray in hair colour/glitter since its half term something she will really need help with to get out out.

Small steps.

I can really identify with DSD. I lived with my dad full time from the age of 11, with DSM on the scene from when I was 13. I really did not take care of myself, and I got badly bullied at school. The thing is, I was getting bullied before the hygiene issues, and because I was depressed and anxious, I didn't care.

My suspicion is that DSD might have some mental health issues that are presenting as poor hygiene. I would try to support her and help her get to the bottom of this, and very gently help her to feel worthy of love.