Sister-in-Law didn’t invite my mother in

She didn't expect her MIL to be a "silent courier" she asked her to do something she had done many times because when she was busy - just drop this mysterious "freebie" off as she was busy

Judging from MIL's reaction here its possible that trying to refuse the freebie has either being ignored or has been received with such affront (oh are the leftover sausages I get from work not good enough for you?) that SIL just accepts them to keep the peace tbh

It is settled you are off now? Night!

Arguing with people who pretend to believe water is dry and up is down is amusing for a while, but then becomes tedious.

So, it's settled that the SIL was rude and that she was materially, observably and provably actually available. Those things can't be argued and we are all in agreement (especially the ones arguing so vehemently 😅 )

The only question left is why was she rude? Is MIL in the habit of riding roughshod over SILs arrangements? Does MIL not allow SIL to rearrange times to suit herself?

If so, that puts a new slant on it. SIL will still have been rude, of course, that can't change. But she may have been rude for a reason.

I have nothing more to add, and there are very dRaMaTiC people bizarrely doing a lot of swearing and shouting and getting super triggered about this incident, so I will leave it at that.

And to the OP - don't let your mum call her son to complain about this, it will make your SIL behave even more rudely.

And do try to find out if your MIL is being rude by imposing and not taking the hint.

Goodbye.

Sister in laws reply should have been - I’ll be here with my family who are visiting and you’re more than welcome to nip in.

It would have then given mum a chance to nip in and say hello or decide not to disturb the visit/or drop things off another day.

And yes, sister in law did say she’d be busy that day but she never said, I’ll be at home with my family when you’re dropping things off. There’s quite a leap between being busy WFH for example and what actually happened.

Op, your brother should be told about what happened and not just because I’m sure his partner has already told him.

Because I'm highlighting the reason it's rude to knock and try and impose since you can't get it (and even said its not rude if you've been told to stay away, which she basically was)

She was NOT available. Being physically present does not make you available. I can answer the door and speak to someone but not be available because I then step out of the door and go to work. Or I'm in a towel about to get in the shower. Or just took food out of the oven. Or need to return to a call... physical presence =/= available

That's the fact. You trying to suggest otherwise doesn't change it

And being as SIL takes time 2 or 3 times a week to pause work and talk to her as well as take MIL out would suggest she is happy with her company just NOT when she chooses to invade a social setting she's not invited to

Are you ok? Just because you say it’s a fact doesn’t make it a fact 😂

If she was available she would have said she was available like she has done many times before. MIL saw people in the house and decided to infringe on that instead of having manners, realising her daughter in law was entertaining guests and not banged on the door insisting to be answered and brought in.

No, it's just settled. Like saying gravity exists or water is wet, it's just a fact :)

SIL showed bad manners to her MIL and expected her to be a silent courier who vanished upon delivering her parcel. That is, subjectively, discourteous, i.e. rude.

But you're of course entitled to pretend you disagree for the sake of continuing to argue the point :)

Why are you swearing? Why all the drama?

No, she was available. And we know this because she spoke to her MIL. So, materially and observably, she was, in fact, available.

No, she was definitely not told to stay away she was told to be a silent courier and the expectation on SILs part was that she would vanish silently. That didn't happen.

So yep, SIl was rude. The only question is why she was so rude.

It’s settled with yourself 😂

You don’t speak for me or my opinion.

I think you are being really harsh, MIL had obviously built up the relationship over the years with her DIL, where she texts, drops by and they have a pleasant coffee/chat situation, that seems mutual.

The only times she's been asked to leave things in the porch is if DIL is on a teams call or if she is out. So MIL coming to the house would have expected a quiet house or for no one to be in.

Based on their prior relationship I really don't think it was overstepping of MIL to assume there had been a change to DIL plans or a misunderstanding, DIL should have really communicated to her that she was going to be spending the afternoon with her family and would rather catch up another time.. instead of asking her to leave the free gifts then go away, which is apparently what DIL wanted to happen.

If you've been having a familial relationship with someone for four years there would be absolutely zero reason to suspect you would be shunned instead of welcomed just because other members of the family were there, so I can't agree that MIL was being rude by knocking, she was made an incorrect assumption.

It sounds like MIL values this relationship, where as DIL is only entertaining it to get free gifts every time MIL visits, at least MIL knows where she stands now.

DIL was rude to mislead her, then turn her away, shockingly rude.. she could have just asked her not to come at all and told her why so there was no confusion.

She was NOT bloody available. She was present but not available. She was entertaining her family. She told MIL. This beforehand but MIL knocked until she got an answer. She WAS told to stay away.. in a nice way. No, I aM not available at that time. MIL knocked until SIL was forced to open the door. That is incredibly rude.

Nope. Telling your MIL to be your courier and expecting her to leave silently is rude.

It's never, of course, rude to knock on a family member's door unless they have explicitly told you to stay away.

Being surprised someone is home when you didn't expect it and knocking because they are family and you expect to be treated like family, is not rude.

But expecting your MIL to be your courier and vanish silently when you have received you parcel, is, irrefutably rude.

SO the SIL was rude. That's settled. The only question is, why was she rude? Was there a reason?

Why are you screaming in all caps? How bizzarely triggered you must be.

Nope, can never ever be considered rude to knock on a family member's door unless they have told you to stay away. And that's that :)

And yep she physically materially observably and provably was, in fact, available. And we know this because she spoke to the MIL and sent her packing.

And no matter how much shouting you do, these facts won't change :)

The only reason the SIL could have for being rude to her MIL - and she was irrefutably rude - is if there is a backstory we don't know about.

She knocked numerous times so SIL had no choice but to open the door AFTER being told Shevwas NOT available. That is incredibly rude.

Right, I have been wondering if it is an English thing. My husband grew up in London and would never ever have refused family entrance - but he was raised by irish parents and hung around mainly with Irish ex pats.

Might also be a social class thing. Working class people are generally much kinder, friendlier, more welcoming and generous than social climbing middle classes, and I say that as someone who moved around diferent social classes and countries for many years.

cannot be considered rude to knock on a family member's door unless they have specifically told you to stay away

It can be considered rude if you've been told to LEAVE THE ITEM IN THE PORCH!

Which she was

She was asked to leave the item because SIL wasn't available

She wasn't available because she had other guests. Being in the house doesn't mean being available. Being able to open the door and give a quick comment doesn't mean you're available. Being family doesn't mean being available

That's a vague outline of what SIL said. It's not whay she said or presumably all she said...

And YOU literally said she spoke rudely!

She wasn't even rude. MIL was by overstepping the boundary that had been set for that day

Oh just seen your edit

And it warranted it from me.

I think your mum was pretty rude. She knew your SiL was going to be busy. When she got there she realised your SiL had guests, so it was clear what the being busy meant.

Your mum decided to interrupt that. Once she did, inviting her in would have been polite to her but rude to your SiL’s family who were there, by arrangement, to see SiL. LittleBigHead’s suggestions for how it could have gone are reasonable, but not guaranteed. Your SiL might not think your mum is as unintrusive as you think she is. Especially since she knocked knowing your SiL had said she’d be unavailable.

Interesting you say that. I also grew up in Scotland with Scottish parents. SIL would be considered incredibly rude for this.

is it an English thing to keep all friends, family and acquaintances separate?

MIL is family too.

There’s no way on earth you’d leave people standing on the doorstep in Scotland. I remember neighbours popping round to drop something off when we had visitors. They’d always be invited in, would say hello. They’d always politely leave after a few minutes, but it would’ve been rude for either side not to come and say hello.

No, it wasn't rude, and cannot be considered rude to knock on a family member's door unless they have specifically told you to stay away. Instead, SIL wanted her to be a silent courier, drop her goodies, then vanish without a word. MIL didn't follow that script. Unexpected, but of course not rude.

Calm down? You mean stop feeling upset? That doesn't usually work does it saying "Have you tried not feeling that way?" Grow up and get over it? You mean, be rude to her mum so as to make her feel worse? I can't imagine that would help the situation at all.

I dare say the mum will get over it in time and yes she should not phone her son, it will only add fuel to the fire.

It may be settled in your mind that SIL was rude, but I think MIL was rude for knocking on her door, twice, when she knew she had company. All MIL had to do was what she was asked to do. God knows why MIL would want to risk losing a perfectly pleasant relationship she's had with SIL for four years by mentioning it to her son. OP needs to tell her mother to calm down, grow up and get over it.

She was available though, and we know that because she answered the door and expressed surprise at the MIL not just couriering the stuff around and silently leaving.

Really, the only thing we need to know is if MIL will allow SIL to reschedule these visits to suit SIL or if MIL just insists on the times she sets.

Your mother was not rude.
Your SIL was not rude to ask for the XX to be left on the porch.
We don't know the converstaion.
Your DM might have said that she was driving past that morning enroute to XX and it would be convenient etc. even though SIL was busy.
We don't know exactly why SIL has hidden her family from her firend/MIL. That is the most baffling??
Could be someone having Cancer treatment, or anything.
I can see why SIL was caught off guard but I can also see that she hurt your mother. It was probably not intentional but your SIL hurt her.
I would be proud to introduce my MIL to my family and vis-a-vis.
Sometime in the next few months. MIL should express a interest in meeting her DIL's family and ask her son to arrange for them to have afternoon tea with her when next they are about. She should ask her son to get back, frankly, to her about whether they wish to accept any freebies in future.

You mother needs to be extra sensitive for a while and see how it settles but I hope she gets an apology..