For thinking having lots of kids is selfish

I absolutely think that, given the money, the right personality and good health, that raising five children well would be absolutely doable and not beyond the capabilities of committed parents.

I'm not beyond judging people - I do. But I think it's incredibly myopic and self congratulating to assume that people must be doing things badly because you cannot achieve those things yourself.

That's your parents though, not the size of your family. I'm one of two and was never heard or listened to, feelings always denied and dismissed. I've made sure to be very different with my family (which is bigger than two children) because I know how hurtful it is.

Conversely I know plenty of people in large families who are very confident.
You've confused your focus. You're blaming your LARGE family for your issue. You should be looking at YOUR large family.

Most people who are great parents to one kid would be great to 5. Most who would be shit with one kid would be shit with 5. The vast majority just muddle along, doing their best. Of course, few people are going to be amazing attentive parents to 12, but whatever led them to have 12 is probably a factor that wouldn't be fixed with less children....

Yeah, I know. I'm not at all naïve but I wish someone would come up with a plan that involved living differently. Not euthanasia or working till we drop. I'm not an economist though.

This tends to be said about everything on Mumsnet, but I think the experience of growing up in a big family is influenced hugely by the financial position of the family. I grew up in a large family (5 kids) and our parents were well off so we had our own rooms, a mother who was around a lot and very supportive and still got to go on nice holidays, take part in activities etc. We had a very happy childhood and are still close.

My best friend growing up had 3 siblings but money was tight and it was all quite hard. I suspect that this is the case in a lot of larger families where everything is stretched too thin and the parents are exhausted. If you can afford a larger family easily and have the emotional capacity for it it can be wonderful. Otherwise smaller is probably better.

Yeah, don't have a third child if you don't want to. Each to their own

It's a bit weird having lots of children in this day and age. As there is such a huge population of humans - 8 billion now - I can't see the need. The parents cannot POSSIBLY give each child their full attention when they have 6 or more children. Also, I do wonder if people would have so many if they had zero help from welfare benefits? Not even child benefit...

1 is fine, 2 is plenty, 3 is the most anyone needs IMO. It would do the planet the world of good if 50% of humans didn't reproduce at all for 10 years. Also, whilst children are wonderful, and SOMEone needs to have them to keep the human race going, it is hard work raising them - and expensive. And even when they're grown they cause you heartache and stress!

I know a woman right now with a 36 y.o. daughter who has just moved back 'home' for the third time. (First left at 28!) She gave up her job and her flat - as all the responsibility was 'stressing her out.' She hasn't kept a job for more than 6 months, she's had 13 jobs since she left school, and has spent more than 50% of the past 17 years unemployed. Her mother enables her too. (This 36 y.o. woman has had a couple of boyfriends, one for 1 year, and one for 2 years, but never lived with any of them!)

I'd lose my shit if either of mine behaved like this. Her other daughter (age 30) has had 2 children with different men, and lives at 'home' too. With the 2 children. Had 7 different jobs between 17 and 23, and has just not worked since she had her first child. All living off the parents!

YANBU @User788889 Fortunately however, not that many people have lots of children these days, and more people than ever before are choosing to remain child-free.

My brother got four children with big age gaps and older ones are forced to parent younger ones as parents are too busy with work, studies, etc. Its been extremely unfair on older children. But they literally have no choice.

They'd only balance that decline with immigration, don't be so naive.

In the UK?

In one of 6 and my DH is one of 9 and we are both close to our siblings. Had happy childhoods. But that was Ireland in the past, and not to be recommended I think. It was very hard on my mother in law I think. Up to 4 strikes me as a good number though.

I think you are generalising from your own experience OP. I know lots of larger families (though none as large as yours) and I think there are happy families and less happy. I think all of my siblings like living in a larger family, but none of us had to parent each other.

I’m one of 6. As a dc I knew our straitened situation was due to too many dc to feed and clothe.
I dreamed of being an only dc.
My best friend is an only dc, her df died when she was very young and her dm was a poor( financially) widow. However my bf had a loving dm who was very present for her and she was cared for in a way I never was.

As adults I have a good relationship with all of my siblings and I love them very much.
My bf would have loved to have siblings and has no family outside her dh and dc.

I think on balance my bf is still better for not having lots of siblings because she had a childhood that gave her a more stable upbringing and a confidence that I don’t have.
But perhaps that’s just our personalities. There’s a lot of factors to consider.

Perhaps it would be better if the UK population gradually declined? Certainly environmentally, as I watch our countryside vanish under concrete.
Yes, I realise the ratio on non-workers to workers is a problem.

People underestimate how much the companionship of siblings can balance out a lack of attention from parents. So you might not get lots of one on one from your parents (you might not get that as an only child either!) but you can have lifelong companions that more than compensate.

Btw having any children is selfish. One is, two is...you're not having them for anything other than selfish reasons.

I have known 2 couples who were actively told by doctors no more children because it would put the mother’s health at serious risk including death.
Oh no that wasn’t good enough. I WANT more.
To me that is pure selfishness.

I have a collection of kids and they get more attention and opportunities than I ever got as one of two. And none of the reasons you mention are reasons I had a few kids. We were doing well and really enjoy kids. No more, no less. As adults they are positive about it. I wish I had more than one sibling, but I don't think my parents could have managed that well.

I think before reliable contraception kids just came along . It was expected of a couple to produce a baby straight away . Then the 1960s came , the pill ,
Women's liberation and everything changed .

As for people with small families back then , I guess Storks brought babies , Swallows didn't . 😂

I’m sorry you felt so lonely as a child, that’s sad to read.
While I’m not one of ten, I’m one of ‘5+’ and although our childhood was a shitshow in many ways, having my siblings was never part of the strife. I’m still incredibly close to all of them today and feel grateful to have grown up with them all. I never really felt I go ‘no’ attention but of course, I probably got less than one of, say, two children. I only have one child (and one imminently due!) myself but that’s not through lack of wanting a big family, and one of my siblings is fast approaching the ‘5+’ bracket with their kids, so I guess we must remember it fondly enough!

There are many kids from big families who are really positive about it. And many kids from small families who aren't positive about it. It comes down to the experience they have and how well the parents can manage a larger family. Some do it better than others, it seems.

What matters is that you don't think you can manage three, so that should be the only thing under consideration.

Parentifying children is abusive and isn't always part and parcel of large families.

I'm 1 of 8 and never once felt on my own in fact we are all very close siblings and with our parents, grandparents etc and now have our own young families and all live and work near each other. Currently got 4 of my own and bringing them up same way letting them be children not having to care for there siblings it's not there job

We need to decrease world population though. The drain on resources by the current population is totally unsustainable and detrimental to the planet and all it's ecosystems.