For thinking having lots of kids is selfish

I loved being one of four. Still love it. Still close to all my siblings and my parents and they all bring a lot of happiness to me.

We were comfortably off though, my parents could still afford private education, uni fees, holidays and expensive hobbies for us.

I think it would have felt very different if money was tight

Your reasoning makes no sense. If having kids is selfish than surely having one or two also is? Your argument of having loads of kids needing adoption also applies to you, why did you have two kids when you could have adopted? Who will be the judge and issue a number when it’s ok to have kids and a number when you have to start adopting them? Also, as human beings we are always deep down selfish, people chose to not have kids for selfish reasons and chose to have a few or lots of kids for selfish reasons as well. However, it takes a lot of generosity and some degree of selflesness to raise kids with love and respect and proper manners and values so I don’t agree with you at all. Also, I think I’d rather have been born in a large family and exist than not exist at all so also there’s that.

I knew someone that had 10 kids yes 10 kids all to the same dad.
The eldest 3 became the parents most of the time it was awful the mum was only interested in the benefits.

She asked me why i stopped at one my reply was not the best i said i wanted my vagina to stay in shape.
I was one and done.

@Rachie1973 hats off, fostering or adoption sounds so so intense. I admire those that take it on.

I’m one of four. I loved it. I’m the eldest, and it felt like a little gang. Always someone on your side.

I had 4 myself, and married a man later with 2 of his own. We had custody of all 6. It was busy and fun and the kids are close as adults. We all get together a few times a year, with our grandchildren as well to keep our bonds tight.

Fostering is hard work. I’m a registered foster parent as well. It’s not just taking kids and loving them in a little bubble of idyllic happiness. You can’t just bounce up and say ‘I’ll take 2 please’.

To start with the process is gruelling. Your life is picked over, and laid bare. Bank accounts, medical records, your home, even your car! They have to check MOT etc. just explaining how intense it is.

Then they interview 3 referees. Intense discussions about you, your beliefs, your friends, your outlook on gender, sexuality, racism etc. They then do your family, kids, ex partners.

If you get through all that then you have to go in front of a panel who again grill you.

Most children in the system are ‘damaged’ in some way. They need intense care that often involves you giving up work to do it.

Poverty must be an issue. My DH wasn’t poor but said he remembers very clearly always being hungry and that they all looked skeletal under their clothes.

Poverty often goes with large families so children may not have material things. But in the end the quality of the upbringing reflects the quality of the parents (and other family members). My mother was 7th of 8 (Or 12 some died) but said her mother was as interested in her doings as she had been in all the rest. Of course the older ones were adults when the younger were born. All of the children were very close and pulled together through good and bad times. (On the other hand I have cousins who couldn't find time for 2.)

I think 'selfish' might be a bit unfair but it is an unusual choice to have 6+ kids and I think driven by very personal circs.

But I love an unusually large family thread. It generally fills up with parents of 6+ saying how wonderful it is and how much kids love it too and adults who grew up in large families saying they hated it.

I completely agree with you, OP. I do know one or two big families (not as big as 10, though!) who are happy, but it certainly wouldn't be for me. I'm an only child myself and am childfree, but if I wanted kids there is no way I would want more than two at the very most, in fact I'd most likely be one and done. Anything over three seems like a lot at this point in history.
Incidentally, I know someone who is very big on the environment, Just Stop Oil, XR, yadda yadda. She has five kids! I cannot take her stance seriously one whit.

I was one of 5 and loved it! We are still all very close as adults

While I agree with you in principle, that’s a lot of economic decline. I am in Scotland, and on one hand our SNP government is pushing a green agenda, on the other they want immigration or rising births to breed more tax payers.

Taxpayers who, by and large, support a large public sector and freebies, such as prescriptions, bus travel etc, and of course social care for the aging population (as I hope one day to be!)

As to large families, as others have said, if parents ahave the energy and resource to raise them, that’s great.

I am sorry, Op, that it really has not been great for you.💐

Nobody can split the time equally between 3 children, so what? I don't have 3, but I think it is a marvellous number!

No, you are not unreasonable at all. I was one of five and experienced a similar childhood to yours. It made me incredibly resentful, I was like a mini parent, changing nappies etc. I’ve always been of the view that children shouldn’t be the ones parenting their siblings (to the above extent, anyway). We also had to fight for our parents attention and affection, which was just ridiculous. They didn’t have time to devote to each child.

They wouldn’t feel the need to do that though if people didn’t generalise big families so much. It gets people’s backs up when strangers decide your children are living in the depths of despair just because you have more than 2 children.

OP had to beg for attention so apparently that must be the same for all children in big families. See what I mean?

Omg! I have never heard anyone talk of "parentifying" kids as abuse. This happened to me and I could not agree more. It has left me with lifelong issues, not least putting other people's needs before my own, which has made me prone to be abused by others.

They’ve had a couple of city breaks away, including London for 3/4 nights because it costs so much. Never been on a plane.

I didn’t go on a plane until I was an adult because we couldn’t afford it - but my parents could afford to smoke 30+ cigarettes every day and that’s the reason we never got away. I remember their selfishness.

DH was an only child and got no attention or love growing up. He says it was intensely lonely.
Honestly think some people are just not cut out for kids, regardless of the number. Although 10 is mind blowing, and must have had no peace at home.

I know someone who is 40 and has 13 kids. Absolutely crazy and I feel sorry for the children.

I am currently pregnant with my 4th.

I grew up as one of 4 and was unhappy.

That wasn't caused by the amount of siblings though, but by my parents behaviour.

There was physical and emotional abuse and my father abandoned us when I was 10.

Yes, having a big family has its advantages, but beyond the kids, there’s also the mother’s sacrifices. Some moms don’t actually want to take on the heavy burden of having too many children.

@User788889 thank you that was a really nice thing to say.

I agree wholeheartedly from experience. I’m one of 7. I had to constantly beg for attention as a child. I was painted as “naughty” because I probably acted out to be noticed by my parents. In my family’s case, mine and my siblings emotional needs were never met properly because there simply wasn’t enough time to.

Completely agree OP. I say this as one of eight.

My mother would say we had an idyllic childhood, she has rose-tinted spectacles and no capability of self-reflection. She definitely did and does not have the emotional capacity to have that many children. It's very telling that the majority of my siblings don't want any children at all. I only have two with a big age gap and I am so careful not to parentify my eldest.

I strongly believe any number over four is too many for a parent to deal with.

Laoise542 Interesting that you fell out with your twin ,my friend was also a twin and doesnt speak to her either . Anyway I digress .Large families were usual when I was growing up 60sn /70s 6 children was normal ! 4 is seen as large now.On one hand I only know a couple of people with 3 or 4 ,most seem to be 1 or 2 .Big Irish families were also usual .