To think poorly of the OW in this situation?

The OW is pretty irrelevant. If it wasn’t her it would have been someone else. Direct your ire where it deserves to be - entirely with the man.

I dont agree or support what OW did at all.
However, I am equally disgusted by some of the insults being thrown around in this thread - tramp, lowlife etc. This is a human being. Your ex. is the liar and cheat. He has probably spun her a backstory. I think a lot of 'OW' often have a history of abuse, past trauma etc. They aren't able to develop healthy relationships because they weren't shown love and or didn't learn to value and respect themselves. She may be immature or not really considered the impact of her actions (especially if she doesn't have kids herself). It doesn't make it right of course, but there doesn't need to be so much hate. If she knew about the damage she'd caused I bet she'd be mortified. Most people would be.

You find it fascinating that other people think you're wrong? It's really weird that you're trying to act like the David Attenborough of Mumsnet and are directing your thoughts at some imagined audience.

You: If we look closely into this thread, we can see the internalised misogyny appearing. What a fascinating display.

OP (and others): "Actually, I'm just saying that some women are extremely selfi-"

You: "AS we can now see, the misogyny is internalising in real time. Such a special moment for us to capture here on Mumsnet. Utterly fascinating."

😐

I'm a woman who thinks a married/'taken' man, with or without children, is an unattractive prospect. I have never slept with someone's boyfriend, or husband. I think that shit is grim, and I've called men out who have tried to cheat with me. It genuinely makes me angry that they're such selfish idiots who are trying to inflict themselves on me, and could hurt their girlfriends badly for some meaningless titillation. I've always been this way, not because I've been hurt.

However if a man is single and I want him, I don't care about the competition, and I won't bow out just because someone else wants him. As soon as it seems like he' struggling to make his choice, or might prefer someone else, THEN I am no longer interested. Just naturally, easily, uninterested. And I'd respect his choice, and her, by not behaving as a threat in any way.

There are lots of people like me around, and I don't think it's misogynistic to say that women that aren't like this are extremely selfish.

Extreme selfishness is disgusting, whether that comes from a man or a woman, by the way. It's okay for OP to find her disgustingly selfish ex and his disgustingly selfish girlfriend utterly deplorable. Neither of them care about the well being of others, and that isn't just standard human behaviour like you're trying to make out.

It doesn't say anything good about her, or her self esteem, or her very low standards for men.

I don't see how you can trust a man that you start a relationship with this way. If he cheats with you, he will cheat on you. They might believe it's different for them, but it's very unlikely to be. I suspect she is going to be in for a fall with this man.

Don't get me wrong, it's 100% on your ex. He just found someone who also has low standards.

I don't get why OW/M who know their AP has a family/partner do it either or why they should get off lightly on the basis they aren't your partner, both are culpable, both behave badly.

For those thinking OW/M don't owe the partner anything, it makes me think of all the married and partnered people who I know have tried it on with me or my friends and family and thankfully, bar one, we all had the self respect and common decency to turn them down. Should we have just gone off shagging? I don't think so. Surely you have to have terrible self esteem at the minimum to do it, all you get is the crumbs and the moaning about the partner and often no relationship at the end of it, what self respecting person lets that BS into their life?

Whenever I read/hear about OW/M who have affairs and ONS with partnered people it just reminds me that the most disgusting flies are always attracted to the biggest, freshest shit going.

She needs to bear in mind what the late Sir James Goldsmith said. 'When you marry your mistress, you create a job vacancy.'

I've been there, stupid ex has loads of money so maintenance paid and I can guarentee the stupid twat will get caught by the OW wanting a child and maybe getting pregnant accidentally once her clock starts ticking. And then he'll be in the same boat a gain won't he, except her expectations will be far lower having seen what he's like.

I feel for you, and you are well rid believe me

Thanks @PandaTime, I did reach that conclusion but I felt quite tortured at the time and had to have quite a bit of therapy to process it all! I’m just a bit more understanding now of how life doesn’t exactly go to plan. I was previously extremely didactic with my life planned out 5 years in advance. The universe has taken me down a peg or two.

It doesn't make you a bad person to leave a relationship that is no longer working for you. The realisation that it needs to end comes in different ways for different people. Finding yourself attracted to someone else is one of those ways. But then choosing to have an affair and all the lies and sneaking involved in that is where the line is crossed.

You could have cheated, but it's not who you or your DP are or who you wanted to be. Despite the attraction and the opportunity, you both chose not to encourage an affair.

Fuck your ex.

Some women are stupid.

And some men like stupid women.

He's made her feel that she is so special that he left his life for her, and is likely glad that the children don't take up a disruptive amount of his time.
It's a self centered thought process but not vastly uncommon from people without children.

@PandaTime I didn’t cheat because I’m a guilt ridden lapsed Catholic and DP didn’t make a move! He didn’t make a move because he was getting no encouragement from me and he is very much not a player and cheating would have been well outside his wheelhouse.

Had there been the slightest encouragement from either side I think it could have gone the other way, which is why I now think it’s more nuanced than I previously realised.

I think I'd also be far more devastated to find out my partner had fallen in love with someone else vs slept with someone else. (I now know my exH slept with others while we were together 🙄 - I can’t muster up the energy to care bc the love was so long gone when I found out, although had I known at the time I would have been shattered.)

@Endoftheroad12345 Why did you not cheat though? Why did you both end your relationships first? The spark was there, but you chose to wait. That makes a huge difference.

Once upon a time I would have been very black and white about it but now I’m not so sure. I have been in a relationship with my now DP since May 2023. He was an old flame from high school and we re-met in November 2022 (we both happened to be in the same city for work, we live in different countries). I was at the time very unhappily married and he was in a relationship. We both had children. Nothing physical happened between us that night but certainly that meeting was a catalyst for both of us. It was a coup de foudre and the next day I caught the train back to London and cried the whole way, thinking I would never see him again. He says his relationship was on the rocks - I don’t know, I didn’t live it, but I suspect he would not have had the impetus to pull the pin on it at that point if he hadn’t met me. They sound very incompatible but DP can be very conflict averse and can certainly take some of the blame for the state of the relationship (and for even getting into it on the first place).

My exH was abusive in every way and I should have left years earlier. The warmth and kindness and love that I felt from DP that one night shone a light on everything that was missing in my marriage. I ended my marriage in November 2022, not because I was leaving exH for (now) DP as (a) we live so far away from each other and (b) I assumed he was unavailable - but bc my marriage was intolerable. When DP learnt that I had left my husband he told me he had fallen in love with me and ended his relationship (not a marriage but a 3 year relationship with a child involved). We didn’t meet again until May 2023 and our proper relationship commenced, although for sure there was an emotional connection before then. Nearly two years on we are extremely happy and planning our life together.

I have no doubt both of our ex partners think we cheated although we both ended the relationships before starting ours. (My ex less so than his, given our split was on the cards and I stayed through physical abuse so really his days were numbered.)

I’d never condone cheating but I don’t know that keeping your hands clean but being the woman a man leaves a relationship for is particularly comforting to the woman that is left. I’m not as quick to judge infidelity or overlap in relationships as I used to be. I don’t think we did anything wrong but I now realise life is messy and no one knows what goes on in other people’s lives. I looked like I had a perfect affluent middle class life with my exH and he was terrorising me and the kids and assaulted me on more than one occasion.

Like you @Itsnotpink I’m now a single mother, I work full time and and exH barely had the kids. He does whatever he likes and I do the parenting. For me though, maybe it helps that I had agency over my decision to leave - I chose this. It’s tiring and lonely (DP still lives overseas) but I feel very lucky that my ex is such a shit dad and human being generally that I get to be present for my kids’ childhood - I would far rather the exhaustion of full time solo parenting than the heart break of missing my kids half the time.

The best bit is she probably thinks he would never cheat on her

She probably thinks it's just because she's so irresistible. He would be a wonderful fatter if I it he wasn't so infatuated with her. They are both narcissistic twats.

But somehow this women and him think he is a fantastic dad because he pays maintenance?! do women really find guys like this a catch. I sadly had no one to gage him against. But this women knows he is a cheat, a liar and puts himself before his kids. It’s a total mystery to me!!!

There's a lot of women like this in general even if they weren't the OW. A man just has to utter the magic words 'lives for my kids' and then she believes he's an amazing dad even if he never sees them. It's bizarre.

Complicit definition - involved with others in an activity that is unlawful or morally wrong. Er, yes, I think she was complicit. It's not about a "job" to care about someone, it's about living a life where you don't harm/hurt others, so you just don't go there - especially when there are kids. She played a part in those kids growing up without a father. Again, not apportioning blame. He's more to play but she played a part.

She really wasn't complicite. He was married to you HE did this 6 times. Or 6 different women. I get it when I was much younger I was cheated on and I felt hateful toward OW. But now looking back sure she knew about me but guess what it was her job to worry or care about me. It was his.

Why post anything then? Because you can't justify your basic selfishness clearly, in thinking it's "fine" to behave like an OW and take what you want. Any woman that thinks that is ok towards another woman isn't valuing women, so perhaps that could be construed as misogyny as clearly anyone that thinks it's ok to put themselves above others in a situation like this couldn't care less about women. Bizarre thinking but not in the least bit "fascinating". Nothing you've said is fascinating, you've just declared yourself a selfish, uncaring person, and no, not everyone is like you, thankfully.

She only wants him because he’s taken

I am so sorry that happened to you it’s awful. My dad did exactly this. Weirdly started a thread about it yesterday as I seem to be feeling more angry about it since having my own kids and I just cannot comprehend how someone leaves their children/family unit to be with another woman.

i never felt that much anger towards the other woman maybe some at the time.. but now I just see that she was the one ultimately stuck with a man that is capable of doing these things to his own family. He is not a fantastic dad and your children will know that and honestly that’s all that matters. My mum never said a bad word about my dad but we came to our own conclusion. It’s all so hard I’m so sorry x

Why would I have a comeback? I’ve said what I wanted to say. I’m not interested in arguing with you, and I’m not trying to convince you of anything.

No other comeback than that? 😆