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To be hurt and annoyed at being dropped by the BBC?

641 replies

Ladyof2025 · 12/02/2025 18:14

BBC contacted me asking me to speak on camera about an aspect of local history I happen to know a bit about. I agreed and spent the next few days brushing up on the facts and then writing and rewriting a script and reading it out loud again and again until I knew it by heart and could speak confidently to camera as though I'd never said it before.

I do not have a pretty face, and am in my 60s and rather podgy, but I went to the trouble of going through my wardrobe for the perfect outfit that flattered my podginess, and had my hair cut specially and put on some make up, so I could be the best possible version of me that I could.

The production team visited, took me to the site and filmed me speaking. I did it smoothly and confidently and was glad that I had put in all the rehearsal so I came across as knowledgeable, professional and confident of my material. They said my performance was perfect, thanked me profusely and left.

After about a week they rang me to say that due to time and space issues the section of the programme that featured my input had been dropped. I felt absolutely gutted, not because I want to see myself on TV but because I had used up a lot of my valuable free time for several days preparing and rehearsing for it (for no fee I should add).

A few months later the programme I was dropped from came on TV and to my utter astonishment an attractive, slim young lady appeared, at the same site I was filmed at, and she spoke the exact words I had written and rehearsed! I nearly fell off my chair - the absolute bloody cheek of dropping ME but stealing the script that I had written. Thinking about it, I realised that they wanted my expert input, but not my saggy face or ample figure.

AIBU to be hurt and angry?

OP posts:
Ladyof2025 · 13/02/2025 08:42

JimHalpertsWife · 12/02/2025 18:17

Why did you even agree to do it for free in the first place? They usually pay £75-£100 for stuff like this (then £££s for well known experts).

Because I am passionate about the subject I was speaking about and only too happy to share that with the world.

Because I am proud and flattered to have been considered THE expert in my town on this particular building.

Because it never was about money to me.

Because I don't need the money.

OP posts:
Producethis · 13/02/2025 08:15

Producethis · 13/02/2025 08:04

Quite a few assumptions here I wouldn’t agree with - as someone who has been making documentaries for a very long time.

Presenters have different roles. Some are on a journey of discovery, so interview experts to learn about a subject alongside the audience. Others are already experts in a given field and offer their expertise alongside other experts. In your experience, I suspect it was the latter, and of course they will always be portrayed as the ‘most knowledgeable’ so putting your words in their mouth is understandable - if morally questionable. But really, if you don’t want your work delivered by someone else, don’t say it in a situation where you know you have waived all rights to your contribution. The release forms are very clear and haven’t changed in years.

Over-rehearsed contributors are one of the hardest things to make work - they sound stilted, the answers are generally too long, and writing for a script is very different to writing down. Not many people can do it well, and it shows in the delivery.

Again, I don’t say this to make the OP feel bad - she should have been properly prepared by the producer and coached on the day, and if she wasn’t told not to write anything or was given the questions in advance, that’s poor.

You also seem to suggest that productions don’t research things - we do, and when it’s a specialist subject we often employ people with degrees in the area. They won’t have the depth of knowledge someone like yourself would have, but they will be bright and do their homework ahead of time. On-screen experts are needed to give the piece authority because Sarah Jones, TV researcher doesn’t cut it like Jane Smith, historian.

Of course productions don’t do original research - we are in the field of communication, not research. But most research jobs these days have a remit within them for communication - so the relationship between researcher and producer is symbiotic.

As for swapping a contribution for publicity - that is expressly forbidden. You cannot waive payment in the expectation of airtime - and if the production company offers it, they are breaking the rules. You have to sign all sorts of documents on BBC productions (and some other channels) to agree that you haven’t traded airtime for free stuff (which includes time).

I don’t doubt your experience as there are a lot of very poorly managed productions, that don’t do things correctly, but I wanted to add more context and outline the correct procedures.

Oh and re pickups v same day - yes, often we will record two or more talking heads in on location or on one subject but we would never film them in exactly the same place - it would make it uncutable.

If the second expert was filmed in exactly the same spot, the intention was always to only use one contribution.

With the budgets and schedules we have to work with now, there is no way anyone is adding a couple of hours onto an already too long filming day to give themselves a choice.

At the very least, they would film the same material in two slightly different locations so they can cut between. It’s an effective way to make long stories or dense content feel more pacy.

Is it really any different preparing for an interview yourself or a researcher giving you information during it? If you’re not comfortable saying it because you doubt the quality of the research, fine, but you seem to be implying it’s somehow underhand. I disagree and have often had discussion with contributors in this vein.

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 13/02/2025 08:12

Cheeky sods. I'd ask for compensation for my time and I would complain.

Producethis · 13/02/2025 08:04

drhf · 13/02/2025 07:01

I've worked in tv documentaries (as a youngster) and now appear as a talking head occasionally.

I find this believable. One documentary I did early in my research career used part of my contribution, but also recorded the presenter saying some of my words. There was nothing wrong with my bit, but they wanted more of the presenter talking as the programme was structured around her. I was really annoyed as it was research I hadn't published yet. I haven't made that mistake again of using unpublished work in a pre-recorded interview.

I agree with people saying it wasn't appearance which made them drop OP, but PP are far too judgemental about OP writing out her answer in advance. Over-rehearsed contributors get used all the time, and some degree of planning is needed with dense factual content. OP could have been dropped because of a technical problem or because they decided it would flow better or be quicker for the other contributor to say OP's bit too.

It won't have been pickups, it will have been later the same day - interviewing the second contributor in the same location. They will have got the second contributor to cover whatever they got her in for (whether or not they used that in the end) and then added on the same question they asked you. Either she naturally gave a very similar answer (OP if you want to complain you should consider whether that is possible) or she will have said "I don't know the answer" and they will have prompted her using the words of OP's answer they recorded earlier that day.

I've had that too - I've been asked a question outside my expertise and told to give an answer fed to me by the producers. I always refuse, but some people don't. The young contributor very likely had no idea the words were from you OP (but you should assume anything told to you by a documentary team - including an expert presenter - is another researcher’s words as very few projects have time to do original research). The production team probably won't even remember prompting her.

I think this is really poor practice but it is quite common, and common enough that I’m not sure why several posters are adamant that it never happens. OP could bill the production for research, but OP will need evidence that the words were hers (and not the other contributor’s or taken from a book), and to state that she gave her time in exchange for publicity, and since she did not receive the publicity she expects to be paid for the research that the production used.

Quite a few assumptions here I wouldn’t agree with - as someone who has been making documentaries for a very long time.

Presenters have different roles. Some are on a journey of discovery, so interview experts to learn about a subject alongside the audience. Others are already experts in a given field and offer their expertise alongside other experts. In your experience, I suspect it was the latter, and of course they will always be portrayed as the ‘most knowledgeable’ so putting your words in their mouth is understandable - if morally questionable. But really, if you don’t want your work delivered by someone else, don’t say it in a situation where you know you have waived all rights to your contribution. The release forms are very clear and haven’t changed in years.

Over-rehearsed contributors are one of the hardest things to make work - they sound stilted, the answers are generally too long, and writing for a script is very different to writing down. Not many people can do it well, and it shows in the delivery.

Again, I don’t say this to make the OP feel bad - she should have been properly prepared by the producer and coached on the day, and if she wasn’t told not to write anything or was given the questions in advance, that’s poor.

You also seem to suggest that productions don’t research things - we do, and when it’s a specialist subject we often employ people with degrees in the area. They won’t have the depth of knowledge someone like yourself would have, but they will be bright and do their homework ahead of time. On-screen experts are needed to give the piece authority because Sarah Jones, TV researcher doesn’t cut it like Jane Smith, historian.

Of course productions don’t do original research - we are in the field of communication, not research. But most research jobs these days have a remit within them for communication - so the relationship between researcher and producer is symbiotic.

As for swapping a contribution for publicity - that is expressly forbidden. You cannot waive payment in the expectation of airtime - and if the production company offers it, they are breaking the rules. You have to sign all sorts of documents on BBC productions (and some other channels) to agree that you haven’t traded airtime for free stuff (which includes time).

I don’t doubt your experience as there are a lot of very poorly managed productions, that don’t do things correctly, but I wanted to add more context and outline the correct procedures.

Snugglemonkey · 13/02/2025 08:03

WilmaTitsDrop · 12/02/2025 18:25

I've been on the BBC for a similar reason and I find this very strange.

All the clothes sorting, hair cutting, writing your own script (who even does that??) was entirely your own choice.

They normally just want people to chat naturally about the subject, which is probably what the other woman did.

And by pure coincidence, she used exactly the same words op wrote?

Guavafish1 · 13/02/2025 07:59

They shouldn’t have copied your script

Convolvulus · 13/02/2025 07:54

sidebirds · 13/02/2025 03:24

stop looking up to them!! disgustingly biased, politically motivated outfit still 'piggybacking' on the reputation of decades of neutral reportage. stop paying the license of these vile political activists.

Political activivists? The organisation that brings us the Proms, Call the Midwife, the Sunday service,Antiques Roadshow, Countryfile, Strictly? Seriously? Unless maybe you're concerned about the amount of time they allocate to blatantly right-wing types like Laura Kuenssberg and Nigel Farage?

GameOfJones · 13/02/2025 07:54

Are you sure she said exactly your words and not something very similar? There's a limited amount you can say on a quick soundbite about a piece of local history. I find it much more likely that she said something very similar to you rather than your script verbatim which sounds like it would take unnecessary time for someone to have to learn and when they want these segments to appear natural and unscripted.

If you have your script and can prove they replicated it just with another person on screen then I absolutely would take it further because that's shocking.

Jiggedy · 13/02/2025 07:50

I'd follow this up to the ends of the earth if this had happened to me. It's an outrage.

Convolvulus · 13/02/2025 07:49

MILLYmo0se · 13/02/2025 07:47

But she didn't, she rehearsed and said exactly what the OP had written out and rehearsed as far as I understand it

I question whether that is really the case. She must have said something similar if she was being asked the same question, and I do wonder whether OP assumed it was exactly the same when it wasn't.

MILLYmo0se · 13/02/2025 07:47

WilmaTitsDrop · 12/02/2025 18:25

I've been on the BBC for a similar reason and I find this very strange.

All the clothes sorting, hair cutting, writing your own script (who even does that??) was entirely your own choice.

They normally just want people to chat naturally about the subject, which is probably what the other woman did.

But she didn't, she rehearsed and said exactly what the OP had written out and rehearsed as far as I understand it

Producethis · 13/02/2025 07:41

Genevieva · 13/02/2025 06:03

If they used her exact words it is. Her script is her intellectual property.

A standard contributor release form includes a clause that says the production company can do whatever they want with the contribution. Use it, not use it, edit it, amend it etc etc.

OP will have been asked to sign this before they filmed here, and if she didn’t, they shouldn’t have gone ahead with the filming as her contribution could not have been included.

There is no legal claim here.

thepariscrimefiles · 13/02/2025 07:32

Twaddlepip · 12/02/2025 19:40

I really wouldn’t worry..,

You obviously think OP is a troll so why haven't you reported the thread?

thepariscrimefiles · 13/02/2025 07:29

LadysMantle · 12/02/2025 19:12

Sure, but that doesn’t explain how the production team got hold of this script?

They recorded what OP said, didn't use that footage but obviously made a script from OP's recording and gave it to a younger and more photogenic woman to learn.

CatrionaBalfour · 13/02/2025 07:11

poor practice but is quite common
Thanks, @drhf , that's very enlightening. All the people on here who claim the OP's story never happened should reflect on this.

drhf · 13/02/2025 07:01

I've worked in tv documentaries (as a youngster) and now appear as a talking head occasionally.

I find this believable. One documentary I did early in my research career used part of my contribution, but also recorded the presenter saying some of my words. There was nothing wrong with my bit, but they wanted more of the presenter talking as the programme was structured around her. I was really annoyed as it was research I hadn't published yet. I haven't made that mistake again of using unpublished work in a pre-recorded interview.

I agree with people saying it wasn't appearance which made them drop OP, but PP are far too judgemental about OP writing out her answer in advance. Over-rehearsed contributors get used all the time, and some degree of planning is needed with dense factual content. OP could have been dropped because of a technical problem or because they decided it would flow better or be quicker for the other contributor to say OP's bit too.

It won't have been pickups, it will have been later the same day - interviewing the second contributor in the same location. They will have got the second contributor to cover whatever they got her in for (whether or not they used that in the end) and then added on the same question they asked you. Either she naturally gave a very similar answer (OP if you want to complain you should consider whether that is possible) or she will have said "I don't know the answer" and they will have prompted her using the words of OP's answer they recorded earlier that day.

I've had that too - I've been asked a question outside my expertise and told to give an answer fed to me by the producers. I always refuse, but some people don't. The young contributor very likely had no idea the words were from you OP (but you should assume anything told to you by a documentary team - including an expert presenter - is another researcher’s words as very few projects have time to do original research). The production team probably won't even remember prompting her.

I think this is really poor practice but it is quite common, and common enough that I’m not sure why several posters are adamant that it never happens. OP could bill the production for research, but OP will need evidence that the words were hers (and not the other contributor’s or taken from a book), and to state that she gave her time in exchange for publicity, and since she did not receive the publicity she expects to be paid for the research that the production used.

TheSidewinderSleepsTonite · 13/02/2025 06:22

That's disgusting, op. I'm so sorry.

Genevieva · 13/02/2025 06:03

HoppityBun · 12/02/2025 21:51

It really isn’t

If they used her exact words it is. Her script is her intellectual property.

Theextraordinaryisintheordinary · 13/02/2025 06:00

Incredible! You need to shine a light on this. Shocking!

Austell · 13/02/2025 05:07

I know my example above isn’t same as yours as person concerned didn’t write script for them but same principle

Austell · 13/02/2025 05:05

No.YANBU

I admit I haven’t read your full OP yet just the outline but I was listening to a podcast last night of someone who’d been dropped by BBC some decades ago after appearing in a series and suffering ill health. The BBC seemed much more concerned about covering their own backs than others’ welfare

JustMyView13 · 13/02/2025 04:50

Speak to a lawyer but is your script not your intellectual property. They owe you for your script writing services and time.

HelmholtzWatson · 13/02/2025 04:21

It's local history. Anyone can research it and come up with largely the same information. As others have said, it's not their fault that you spent an inordinate amount of time prepping.

Some people are good public speakers, and some are not. If they didn't use you, then the most reasonable explanation is you fell into the latter category, and they decided to use someone who was.

LovelySunnyDayToday · 13/02/2025 03:57

KimMumsnet · 12/02/2025 20:38

Evening! Just poking our heads round the door to ask you to lay off the trollhunting, please. If you have any doubts about a poster, just hit Report on their post and we'll be happy to take a look. Trollhunting only serves to derail threads. Cheers, all.

What does that mean?

sidebirds · 13/02/2025 03:24

Toddlerhelpplease123 · 13/02/2025 01:58

Not surprised at all.

We too have had dealings with the bbc. A client misrepresented our company’s work as their own creation. Not only were the bbc aware and in my opinion did not edit it to make it a neutral broadcast (ie. That this is clients x, not this was designed by client.)

They also after invited the client to further radio and podcast appearances to quiz them on their supposed expertise. Ie. Our design, knowledge and our process.

So not surprised at all and YANBU.

To this day I still find the whole thing quite upsetting to think about. it was disappointing that an organisation that you look up to and should be something so great is really quiet immoral and slimy.

stop looking up to them!! disgustingly biased, politically motivated outfit still 'piggybacking' on the reputation of decades of neutral reportage. stop paying the license of these vile political activists.

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