to think some people think WFH should be a constant nose to the grindstone?

It's very sector-dependent and it's a problem when someone working in one sector doesn't understand they're not in a different sector in terms of "flexibility".

I'm a manager and work hybridly. Some of my team are hybrid, some are in the office all the time. And that has customer-facing hours plus behind the scenes work.

Some tasks are better in the office, some whilst WFH and I try and plan my days with that in mind. Most of the team are fine, work hard, are able to be flexible in both directions eg working later to meet a deadline but starting later to go to a special assembly.

There's an occasional one though who wants "flexibility" but fails to grasp it works both ways. And that I need them to be available in case of a query from the customer-facing part of the team. Or can't grasp that if they drop an hour or two over several days for a schoolrun, or a lunch out etc, then by the end of the week that's half a day they haven't spent working. Because they throw a wobbly if you dare suggest working later than 5pm. Managing people like that is a real pain.

I do find there is value in being in the office. We don't have the sort of culture where people waste hours chatting or vanish to the far off loo/kitchen though. The learning for younger or less experienced team members has been really important. As has the chance encounters that wouldn't be a scheduled meeting. Or seeing someone and spotting the body language is off that leads to a welfare conversation and nipping something in the bud that they may not mention if you only see them for 30 mins on Teams.

I am sorry but that’s total rubbish. Are we supposed to genuinely believe that a small amount of in person collaboration ( which in fact was ALWAYS the norm in nearly every job and is still the norm in jobs that can’t be worked from home) is equivalent to relentless pestering of colleague in the pursuit of a social life ?
I mean that’s just properly silly!

Yes jealousy. I wfh and can pretty much do as I please providing my workload is done. It doesn't matter whether I do it all between 9 to 5 or decide to do at 10pm.
I can mow the lawn. Go shopping for groceries or a day in the city with friends or whatever takes my fancy. Providing my workload is complete each month .
Foe example this week coming is half term. I won't log on at all during the day u till dcs are in bed and do a few hours. I'm quick at my job so what should take 35 hours I generally do in maybe 15/18 so couple of hours an evening and I'm done.
It means I never have to worry about childcare or them being bored if I'm working.

I'm very lucky and appreciate that i can do this.
My employer is family so fully understands and had never raised an issue in all the years doing so which was pre covid.

I WFH long before the pandemic, and there was deffo resentment from many office based colleagues. But I’m measured in targets, so clearly doing my job and well…
I love the flex. And yes, sometimes I walk the dog or do the laundry or exercise in the day!

If you have a job where you have a task or tasks you can complete and say "I'm finished for the day" then it doesn't matter how you space it out and you are not wrong at all. It sounds a nicer way of working.

However many 9-5 jobs don't have an ending so you are expected to keep working in working hours. In that situation if you take time out to do other things because you're WFH and they won't know then you're cheating your employer and you are wrong Unless of course you keep track and do the same number of hours.

Having said that things seem to have changed since I retired. I've seen people who work full time in offices post "I can't be expected to work all the time during working hours. I have to take time out to call friends, read, etc etc".

THAT!

People who are against WFH are either unable to do so - it's not possible for every job, obviously
or worst, those who confuse the work place with their social life and are an absolute nuisance for everyone else trying to get their work done.

but ( when working on project based stuff as I do) it’s infinitely more efficient to be able to just turn your head and ask a question, or turn your screen to show someone something than it is to wait for their green light to come on, message them, ask if it’s ok to call etc etc.
And yet the person you and your colleagues are asking for advice is then getting their train of thought interrupted every 10 minutes, so it takes them more than twice as long to do their work. Rather than them scheduling 15 minutes to follow up on all 20 questions that turned up in the last 2 hours, while you work around the gap for a bit by doing something else (or even have a think for yourself!). It's enforcing a level of polite consideration that ideally would have been there to start with.

Yes I do, do you? I love my job thanks. As mentioned before (a few times) I pointed out a lot of ppl take the piss, some dont, no need to get irate or try and be rude.

do you actually have a job?

You don't necessarily go to the gym "while you wait", but because things can wait too😂You know it's also ok to pop to the loo, or even have a lunch break some days? If you can stop 1 hour for lunch, why cant' I stop 2 hours for my hair or my gym cession?

It's about managing your workload.

Sometimes I wonder how some posters survive in the real world.

I definitely don’t want to physically see my colleagues so I can force them into pointless conversations… but ( when working on project based stuff as I do) it’s infinitely more efficient to be able to just turn your head and ask a question, or turn your screen to show someone something than it is to wait for their green light to come on, message them, ask if it’s ok to call etc etc.
At the same time as my employer championing flex working, on every project I work on there is a point at which the senior bods become concerned about “silo working”. They instigate more meetings, more formal collaboration, away days etc. It never really works, because at this point many people (as this thread shows nicely) are very happy in their silos, working to their own schedule with no annoying distractions from pesky colleagues, or any sense of connection or contribution to a wider goal.
If that suits you, fine, but it may not actually suit the people you work with or the project as a whole. But life in general has become more atomised I think.

@Yodeloo

I'm talking about the actual slackers. That know they should be working but don't.

I reckon it stems back to the Puritans. Hard work and efficiency sold as an expression of faith and morality.

If I was slacking when wfh and didn't have much work, then I would be worrying that my job wasn't safe, particularly if there are redundancies on the horizon.

Honestly, some people can’t think beyond their own experiences. Some roles are a constant stream of work coming your way and others are more project type where you have busy times and quiet times. Some jobs you can’t work at same level all day otherwise you burn out.

My role is basically writing reports. Sometimes I find I am getting nowhere so will find a reason to go over to another building which can be 5-10 mins walk away or go grab a cuppa. I come back to my desk with fresh eyes and more focus. If someone WFH finds that throwing a load of laundry into the washing machine helps them find their focus again then so what.

I work from home. I get my work done. And I also do life admin, go to the supermarket, go swimming, have a lie down sometimes. I really don’t give a fuck what anyone else thinks about it, except my line manager (who is very happy with my work and the amount I get done). Your jealousy, bitterness, wilful ignorance, complete lack of critical thinking and rage about my working practices is only hurting yourself. If you don’t like that your job doesn’t let you do the same do something about it instead of whining and taking your misery out on those that do. Not everyone has to have a shit life or job just because you do.

People take the piss in every job and always have done - whether they WFH, in an office, in a shop, in a factory - it makes no difference.

If people are under-performing or taking the piss, that's for management to solve. It doesn't mean that people who can be flexible or who do have legitimate periods of downtime in their days should be punished.

If someone is lucky enough to work in a flexible role where they can take time out on quiet days to go to the gym or get a coffee, then bloody good for them IMO.

Ok, that's you and understandable. However I KNOW there are others that cheat their employees I've seen it, heard it, heard parents bragging about it at the school gates etc, I'm not saying any of you lot are those people.

I am quick and efficient…its just my work (low level) never ends!

i have zero problem with people finishing early and waiting for work or being able to take a long break between work for various reasons but its a bit tiresome to keep hearing that people who work shorter hours do so because they are quick and efficient and good at their jonbs and better at work life balance etc

its just as irritating as being told you are cheating 😀

Get out of here with your logic and common sense

Just because you've never experienced something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What exactly is cheating about getting your work done on time (or early) and to a good standard?

My current role has always been remote, no office to go “back” to.

Its never taken me the full 8hrs a day so when a call went out for volunteers to help another team, I offered (I was the only one who did!). So now I do 2 roles in my work time. I’m also the first port of call for any queries from colleagues and have completed some individual work projects in addition to the main work. I never turn down a request to do a task.

I still have time to do personal tasks in my work day. How much more should I be taking on? When I have colleagues who will faff around taking all day to do something I can do in an hour. I don’t even think some of them are shirking, they’re just slow.

Theres actually a balance between doing enough work to be seen as productive and taking on so much, that people will end up thinking you can’t be doing any of it well because it’s so much more than anyone else is doing.

Also when I am working, I work intensively, something that wfh allows me to do which an open plan office didn’t. But I couldn’t work at that level every hour of every day as I’d burn out. So there’s also a balance there to be struck.

This just seems like penalising people for being efficient, though, as do lots of the objections on this thread. Why should someone quick and efficient have to have fewer contracted hours or more work because they're good at their job? What's the point in trying hard if it just gets you less money or more work? It doesn't make sense.