To think being frugal is just another form of selfishness?

Yes, this too.

People are quite often frugal in respect of some things to allow them to spend on others.

I think you're conflating frugal and miserly and the reasons for each mindset

I too think this.

I'm fairly frugal because I value financial security, having grown up with a spendthrift mother who lost us our house due to her terrible decisions.

Is that a good enough reason for you OP?

Frugal is simply not wasting money on things you don't care about in order to afford the things you do.

It's just good sense.

Are we talking buying Lidl shampoo instead of L'Oréal or washing your clothes while having a shower like in those TLC extreme cheapskates programme?

Either way each to their own? How does it impact you directly?

OP seems to have confused 'frugal' with 'mean with money'. Frugal means thrifty or economical, i.e. the opposite of spendthrift. Obviously if someone who doesn't need to count the pennies continues to do so this may be because they are of a naturally miserly disposition and hate parting with money, but most people who are frugal are just being sensible. Most of us have to plan and monitor our spending to make sure our money stretches to cover essentials, with some held back for savings, rainy day fund, holidays and other things that are not essential but are nice to have, as and when funds allow. I for one don't spend money when I don't need to just so I can say I am putting money into the economy.

Have you been reading Peter Singer?

More people should be frugal IMO. Overspending on shit we don't need is such a waste. Financial independence should be the goal of everyone, as difficult as that may be for most.

Doh! i've fallen into the trap! 😜

I'm frugal but that's because I work full time and still can't afford shit

I would assocaite being frugal with reducing waste, which benefits the environment and ultimaely everyone, there's nothing admirable about throwing money around, buying new, chucking good stuff away.

Sorry to derail the thread but that sounds quite inspiring! How is living in France? Have you made friends. Maybe start a thread-more interesting than discussions on whether people are selfish for saving.

Yes, there's such a big environmental impact to the overspending/commercialisation. I once read that if manufacturers stopped producing clothes today, we would still have enough garments in existence for everyone on the planet and for the next 6 generations of descendants! So how many new things do we really need?

I think that being frugal isn't a bad thing, it just means that quite often you don't need a new, shiny version of something that you already have one of in the cupboard.

People who overspend aren't necessarily greedy and hoarding things, they are often overspending because they are bored of what they have or occasionally forgetful and have so much stuff it is difficult to remember or find what they already have at home because they have 10 of something in cupboards, drawers and boxes and can't remember what they did with them.

My grandparents gave church mice a run in the poverty stakes, so they had to live frugally. My sister is loadedbut she never pays her way. She's not frugal, she's a tightwad.

isn’t it just hoarding money instead of contributing to the economy and helping others?

Usually people who are frugal aren't so for fun. And sometimes people just don't like spending money on stuff they don't need even though their spending may well "help the economy" as you put it.

As for helping others, I don't know how we would know what anyone does to help others. Someone may not be spending money on XYZ but may be volunteering, helping their elderly neighbours or relatives in various ways or just assisting a stranger in the street. What exactly would you classify as helping others and why is it connected to your question about being frugal as opposed to spending money?

YABU. The mindless consumption fuelled by Social Media is so repulsive.

This is also my experience

Or it could be interpreted that people realise life is stacked against them and is unfair and they just do not want to play the game. They are less willing to silently tolerate it. Of course I don't agree with guilting people to give you things but there are other changes we can make - being frugal not having children to be on the bottom rung of society which will and is affecting society already. The birth rate is going down in multiple countries.

I disagree. People are either frugal because they have little money or they worry about having little money in the future. My mum is frugal because she grew up in dreadful poverty but she's kind and generous of heart,

That’s not being frugal. That’s just standard leeching off others.

Frugal is being careful with your own money while still paying for the things you need/being careful and sensible.

Well any extreme behaviour is probably damaging to the person doing it and possibly to Society in general - a hoarder damages their own property, mental health suffers and neighbours affected by rats, fire hazard etc

On the other end of the scale a person who is reckless with their money is likely to need Government support so other people are paying for it.

But a person hoarding wealth ultimately loses it all - on their death other people inherit it or the Government gets the lot if no-one else can.

So many threads like this at the moment, it always seems like there's someone who thinks their in laws should help them buy a house or that people shouldn't be allowed to have more money than other people or that it's unfair that some people inherit and they're not going to.

I think the issue is that people are so entitled, everyone thinks someone else should be paying for them. There was someone earlier asking if they should go on benefits because they didn't like their job much.

What's selfish IMO, is all the people expecting someone else to fund their lifestyle

We have a system that relies on overconsumption even of finite resources. We need to create more consumers continually for the system to function. And we used to shame people for not having children/not having enough children for looking poor etc etc (of course some people still do) but people are still waking up.