To think being frugal is just another form of selfishness?

Not at all. And in the long run, it is not spending money and consuming goods and services that contributes to economic welfare. It is providing goods and services that other people value that contributes to economic welfare. Spending money ultimately just pushes prices up. Reducing consumption leaves more to go round for everyone else. In the short term, spending more might give the economy a temporary boost, but that's all.

And people pay tax in other countries too and don’t have free healthcare

The tax argument is a bit obtuse because that could literally apply to everything. You don't get to take public transport for free or be exempt from the congestion charge even though your tax money is used to fix the roads and pay government employees .We all know that actual healthcare costs far more than what you pay in tax. The hourly rate for a doctor already exceeds whatever few pounds get deducted from your salary that might end up in the NHS.

A few pages back someone said her MIL had millions in the bank but still only buys yellow sticker groceries. Surely using the NHS is exactly the same as this. Nobody can stop her from buying the yellow sticker food but there is only a finite number of those and someone who is genuinely deprived will not be able to get a discounted piece of food.

There isn’t really an alternative though. The private system needs to be built up and connected with the NHS systems for this to work.

There should be a GP clinic for paying customers and a clinic for NHS patients and an actual real choice. If using the NHS became like using food stamps then this attitude would stop. The systems need to be connected though, like in other countries.

Erm, do you not think if demand for private healthcare rose because people did as you suggest, that would lead to even more healthcare staff leaving the NHS?

I think you need a nice walk in the fresh air OP.

Presumably, it's not "free" because they actually contribute indirectly?

WHO can afford private healthcare exclusively but pays no tax at all?

I have the most controversial opinion on this topic but going to say it anyway. People who can afford private healthcare but still insist on having free NHS treatment are the most selfish. They are taking the resources away from those who genuinely need it and contributing to a collapsing system.

That’s true.
We are all selfish and all bad for the environment universally.

Utter bollocks, op. If someone wants to invest in their security and that of their children's then that sounds like a good use of money to me.

Yes it's a form of selfishness, but so is spending the money. You are selfish either way, your choice is based on what you think is best for you. You spend money because you want to buy something to make yourself feel good, or you spend it because it feels good to make someone else feel good. Selfish either way. Not spending money is selfish because you think it is best for you to keep the money, whether that's because you want to protect your own future interests or just get off on having a healthy bank balance. Putting away money for a rainy day is selfish, you are doing what you think is in your long term interest.

All actions are ultimately selfish. Someone who pushes their child out of the way of an oncoming train, killing themselves in the process is actually demonstrating a form of selfishness. Their instinct makes them do it because they wouldn't be able to live with themselves if they allowed their child to be harmed instead.

Well - for a start, it can't turn into 'hoarding wealth' unless the people concerned are actually wealthy, @BoldPoster - and most people are nowhere near wealthy. Also, as @Changingplace said early on in the thread, most people are frugal because they don't have much money to start with, and need to be careful to make it cover all their necessities.

I think you are talking about stinginess or meanness, rather than frugality.

At what point does ‘being careful with money’ turn into hoarding wealth?

When they become a billionaire.

Is
stingy = mean
and
frugal = careful

I'm fine with being careful but I still hate the word frugal and won’t use it.

Total tosh, OP! Being frugal isn't about "hoarding money", it's about being sensible with and not wasting money on shite you don't need.

What’s the difference between stingy and frugal ?

There’s such a difference between being stingy and being frugal. Society encourages is to be spendthrift, capitalism conspires to separate us from our cash.
What gets my goat is those happy to exploit the generous impulses of others, and sponge off them repeatedly without any thought of reciprocity.

Nothing to do with your question but I absolutely hate the word frugal. My neighbour said it once (about herself) and I don’t like her since.

I think it was the way her mouth moved, even saying the word looked stingy.

People be careful with money is good, stingy is bad.

Sounds like you're angry about something specific.
Some people are frugal through necessity, seems unreasonable to call that selfishness.
I could afford to spend money on certain things but I prefer to be frugal so that I can maintain savings for any emergency situation that might occur, so that I don't go into debt if something unfortunate happens in my life. I'm not sure that's selfish either. Just a personal priority that I don't see as a direct disadvantage to anyone else.
FWIW I consider myself frugal but do donate to charity, something I couldn't afford to do if I didn't cut 'unnecessary' spending in other areas of my life.

It would depend on how you are defining frugality? I define it as making my money stretch as far as possible and getting the best value for my money. Prioritising what is important to my family and our happiness without going overboard.

I would call those who are incredibly miserly with their money to the point of making their direct family miserable without a good reason for said miserly behaviour just selfish tight arses.

I know quite a few frugal people (by my definition) and I myself would consider myself frugal. For example, next week it is half term here. We have 3 days out (with friends) to places we have an annual passes for (1 day at local NT site, 2 days at our local theme park), passes for theme park bought on black Friday at a discount and I've worked out that if we go 3 times a year we've made our money back, between buying the passes and today we have been 10 times. We will pack up for all these days out to save on food costs. We are meeting other friends one day in the holidays at a kids eat free place so that meeting will cost me 1 adult meal. Then the rest of the holidays (if dry) will be spent at home/ park or other free places. If wet we may pop out to another local NT place that has indoor activities and make use of the soft play at the theme park we have annual passes for.

I like a strong coffee so I buy from the coffee guy in our local market even though his are half to a third the size of a Starbucks. DH likes cheese so I buy from the cheese guy in the market because his stuff is excellent even the though the price is way higher than I would pay in a shop. I try and buy our fruit and vegetables from the stall that's run by the local farm shop. We can afford it, it supports local businesses. I don't buy from our local baker as her stuff tastes of damp and sadness.

We usually tip 20%.

On the other hand I shop the local scrapstore for craft supplies primarily because they are cheap but also because it gets material out of landfill and supports a charity.

Is that the stuff you mean?

For the wealthy it's all about priorities imo

I do agree with you , well partly. Some people are frugal because they have no money which is fair enough. But my IL's have plenty of money for multiple lavish holidays, dining out and nights out / events. Basically what they want to spend their money on. But they are far from generous when it comes to gifts etc. They buy for others from pound shops and charity shops. They won't have the heating on for long at their house so as to keep their dc and guests warm. The house is freezing. They scrimp on shopping and bills all the time. I personally would much rather a warm home than a holiday but obviously they wouldn't 🤷‍♀️

So now it's bash the poor for being poor time. Like when you don't have a lot of money to spend you need to be frugal or you won't have enough for the whole month.

I'm frugal because I'm living off my work pension - no State pension for another 4 years. I can't work part time because of health issues so I have no option other than to be frugal.
If contributing to the economy means wasting money on overpriced ordinary food in restaurants when I could make the same at home for a fraction of the price, then so be it.