To think being frugal is just another form of selfishness?

Are we talking about Elon Musk and his ilk, or someone on a fairly average income with typical outgoings choosing to save something for a rainy day? Perhaps Elon and co. don't brag about their frugality, but they've certainly got a heck of a lot of wealth hoarded away.

But this is why we need a middle wealth wise

The middle has been squeezed out but they are traditionally the ones that have spare cash for dinners out or home improvement - and a million middle class poeple eating out once a month is doing more for the economy than one billionaire eating out every night

Yep - you got me, I choose to eat veggie 3 x a week, line dry clothes, user bar soap, take packed lunches out etc... because I'm tight, and definitely not because I'd have -£480 left if my account at the end of the month...

Everyone would see wealthy as ten pounds richer than they are and a lot of wealth is in houses and pension savings and so not accessible

Charles Dickens got it right - frugal people are people who live within their means (whatever those means may be) and ideally put something away for a rainy day. "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery" I would consider myself maybe not frugal but definitely a considered consumer - I'd rather buy one good well made item than 3 or 4 which cost less but won't last. I also give to charity, tip where appropriate and pay my staff near the top of the going rate as they deserve it and (selfishly) I don't want to lose them. I also like buying clothes from ebay/Vinted or charity shops because I think that the fast fashion industry is a disaster for the planet. If something doesn't fit properly I'll take it to a local tailor and get it altered.

When I was younger DH and I did decide to live frugally for five years. It was because we were sick of commuting and the cost of a season ticket was then about the cost of a flat. So we bought the flat and lived on one salary so we could save the other and pay the mortgage off when it came out of its 4 year fix. It was tight but doable but I can't say the experience of counting every penny was pleasant. Even then though we'd still buy our round/give to charity.

OP I think you are confusing frugality with miserliness - again Dicken got that right - think of Scrooge not paying his nephew properly and not giving to charity etc and hoarding his cash.

IMO frugality is a good thing as over consumption is ruining the planet - that is the true selfishness.

Yes, I can see that - surprised there are so many YABU’s!

Take eating out for example. It’s crazy money at the moment, but if everyone stops doing it altogether, all the restaurants will close and that will be really shit. We do have a kind of responsibility to support the economy I think, up to a point - if we want to keep the nice things we enjoy doing from time to time!

But if I handed all my money over then it would be gone wouldn't it? Then I'd be on benefits

By being frugal I can support myself indefinitely

Depends.

I know several people who are frugal because they have to be and I also know some very wealthy people who are tight as a ducks arse and are frugal as a way of life - they don't need to be, they seem to do it for fun!!

I agree but I think the government should be offering tax breaks etc to encourage people to go private wherever possible. Same with private schools. Get as many wealthy people as possible to fund themselves for expensive services and this would relieve some of the strain on public finances. Even if you believe resources are constrained to the point where this wouldn't necessarily mean more people can be treated, it would free up a hell of a lot more money to plough into training and medical equipment etc. This could have a huge impact on the medium to long term.

Labour are playing it all wrong because they would rather we all had crap services rather than have a better overall service for everyone but with potentially a bit more inequality built into it. If I was bottom of a waiting list for a life saving procedure I wouldn't care at all that Mavis down the road paid to be seen first as long as the list moves quicker for me and I can get my treatment sooner. I would not be happy to die (quite literally) on the misguided hill of health equality.

What @BoldPoster is describing in her original post isn't frugality, it's miserliness. Stinginess. Not at all the same thing as frugality. Living within ones means is a healthy way to live. Making wise decisions is a form of self care.

Easy. I am frugal with things like unnecessary new cars, Michelin starred meals, absurd performance weddings, excessive shoes, stupidly expensive frippery, makeup or toiletries etc.

My money is spent freely on things that have real value and matter long term, such as my ds' education, his experiences of the world, our health, good quality food, more spacious accommodation.

To do otherwise would be stingy. That's the difference.

hold on, why would you give access to people who DON"T contribute, but refuse to those who do... how on earth would that be fair 😂

What a ridiculous concept.

YABU.

I am fairly frugal, and my ex hated it. He was always trying to make me buy a new car when my existing car was perfectly reliable. When I lost a fence panel in a storm he decided I needed a whole new fence - £2000 - and couldn't understand why I said no.

Stupid man cared more about how things looked and what the neighbours thought than our financial security.

Then I was made redundant during covid and, as a single mum, was able to carry on as normal, paying 7 months bill, providing for my ds, without claiming benefits or getting into debt.

For me, frugal means I can always provide for my child.

@BoldPoster
Maybe those that are frugal are saving for retirement and care home fees. Meanwhile those who spend freely will rely on the state in other words other people to pay for them.
Who is being more socially conscious to you think?

As tax percentages go up the more you earn, those with more money are obligated to share more of it.

It depends.

Some people are definitely miserly to the point it is unpleasant or selfish for those around them.

But equally it's fine to be prudently frugal

A very good point

You've actively taken a dislike to your neighbour because she said the word frugal? Is this for real?

Examples of countries that have run a system in this manner for a long time don't tell us what would happen if the UK, with our specific socialised model and severe healthcare staff shortage, tried to change it now. Worth nothing that our closest neighbour has something similar and their waiting lists are a total horror.

Being careful with money and hoarding wealth are two entirely different things.

But still, if you want to keep your wealth then crack on! As I said, the term 'hoarding' implies a mental health issue so this is completely different to being frugal. Also I would argue that people with more money do often contribute to society in the form of highest taxes etc. But if I have worked hard all my life and had a bit of good luck with a job or salary or an inheritance I don't think I should be made to feel 'bad' 'frugal' or a 'hoarder' if I don't want to give any of it away.

Not really. In most European countries, private healthcare is widely used to alleviate the strain from the public system. Most people who can afford to will use private doctors for convenience and there is absolutely no stigma attached. An average middle class earner will have private insurance or simply pay out of pocket if it's an emergency. The majority of doctors offer both public and private consultations and will refer their patients for treatments accordingly. So someone can see a private gynecologist but have their pregnancy treatments covered at a public hospital. Or they can request to have the entire birth private as well. It's really a case by case system but the overall quality of medical care is much higher than what the NHS can offer. There is also no risk of medical staff burning out because their everyday stress is much lower. A&E staff never have to deal with people who can't get GP appointments and hospitals are under less strain because more serious illnesses are diagnosed earlier and treated appropriately.

I wouldn't call people with a moderate or high income being mean about donating and tipping, 'frugal'. 'Frugal' means consuming modest amounts of the world's resources and taking care to make good use of whatever money you have. I don't know anyone who brags about being frugal though, so you may be referring to a type of behaviour I haven't encountered.

Try being disabled in a cost of living crisis, go insult someone else.

Hoarding things is a problem. Hoarding money is not.

But you do get to use public transport and be charged or not charged for road usage on the same basis as the rest of the population.

Another thing that's not an infinite resource is medical staff. More demand in the private sector doesn't mean the same staff and services all continue to exist in exactly the same way as they do in the NHS, freeing up space. That's very simplistic.