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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this isn’t cliquey?

240 replies

TheIvyRestaurant · 11/02/2025 16:55

I have a son in year 3, he started in reception class just after lockdown, and we had moved across the country as a family as well to a place where I (a massive extrovert) knew nobody and did a WFH job so was eager to make friends.

The other mums were very sociable and one mum would set up a mums WhatsApp group and arranged regular mums nights out, about 4 a year, and often to welcome new mums who gradually joined. These were very inclusive, and would be places where people could get just a drink or they could eat as well and stay as long as they pleased.

As time went on the numbers dwindled, and the same people would initially say yes and then cancel last minute. Or they’d say yes and just not turn up which is quite embarrassing when a table has been booked. Someone would normally follow up with them - sometimes they’d reply sometimes they wouldn’t! And they’d do it again the next time.

It became clear that just 6 of us consistently turned up to these nights. By year 2 the 6 of us became close friends and we set up a separate WhatsApp group and arranged nights out, nights/days in, cinema trips, the occasional play date etc. We also chat at pick up and drop off, because we’re friends.

the whole class night out invotations still go out but less frequently - only one this academic year at Christmas, as just fewer people seem to want to join.

The 6 of us had a night out on Saturday and spotted another mum with her DH in a restaurant. This mum hasn’t been on a mum’s night out since reception year, and has cancelled a couple of times on the day for other nights out (relevant) we all said hello but as none of us are her friend we didn’t stop to chat.

My friend who organises the nights out (who’s in the group of six) put on the whole mums group chat yesterday about a potential night out in April. The mum we saw on Saturday replied “Is this for everyone or just the clique?”. When my friend asked her what she meant she said there is a clique that excludes people from social gatherings and also at pick up and drop off as well.

Now We are in our 4th year of schooling these kids, and personally think it’s fine to not shout “roll up roll up come for a chat” in the playground or in ie every last person to every single gathering a few of us have. It’s fine to have made friends, and it seems the people who’ve made friends are the ones who’ve made the effort.

This mum NEVER approaches us to say hello, and has never made a real effort since reception. I don’t think it’s fair to say we are a clique when actually we are just friends who have consistently made the effort with each other.

AIBU to think our group of six have the right to hang out without inviting everyone in the class because a friendship has been formed separately as adults, rather than only being linked through our children?

OP posts:
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 10:58

BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 10:47

I was on the other side of this back in early primary school days.

Invited out to large group meet ups which, over time became the rest of us spectating on the "clique" group who monopolised the conversations and you could see the eyes of the other mums rolling. At one, the extrovert mum introduced herself as "Jamie's mum, don't worry, he's not the bad Jamie" The other Jamie's mum was sitting next to me and blushed bright red. I knew her a bit, because her son and my daughter went to the same ASN playgroup, he's since been diagnosed with ADHD. The numbers dwindled because these parents were insufferable as a group.

The best thing you can do is leave the group WhatsApp. They will decide if they want to continue it and have meet ups.

Why should I leave the WhatsApp group? I’ve done nothing wrong and it’s useful to stay in

OP posts:
Estampie · 12/02/2025 10:57

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 10:53

This is a classic example of how extroverts are demonised on MN and introverts are deep, worthy individuals.

Why were you " spectating", whatever that means? Speculating? If you felt that convos were being monopolised, why not join in instead of rolling your eyes?

Jamie's mum sounds like a dick. But both extroverts and introverts can be dicks.

This. Plus most people on Mn routinely misuse the terms introvert and extrovert, anyway. If you are socially confident and talkative, this does not make you an extrovert. If you are 'bubbly', gobby, dominate conversation and regularly make other people the butt of your jokes, this doesn't make you an extrovert either, it makes you a pain in the arse.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 10:53

BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 10:47

I was on the other side of this back in early primary school days.

Invited out to large group meet ups which, over time became the rest of us spectating on the "clique" group who monopolised the conversations and you could see the eyes of the other mums rolling. At one, the extrovert mum introduced herself as "Jamie's mum, don't worry, he's not the bad Jamie" The other Jamie's mum was sitting next to me and blushed bright red. I knew her a bit, because her son and my daughter went to the same ASN playgroup, he's since been diagnosed with ADHD. The numbers dwindled because these parents were insufferable as a group.

The best thing you can do is leave the group WhatsApp. They will decide if they want to continue it and have meet ups.

This is a classic example of how extroverts are demonised on MN and introverts are deep, worthy individuals.

Why were you " spectating", whatever that means? Speculating? If you felt that convos were being monopolised, why not join in instead of rolling your eyes?

Jamie's mum sounds like a dick. But both extroverts and introverts can be dicks.

BoredZelda · 12/02/2025 10:47

I was on the other side of this back in early primary school days.

Invited out to large group meet ups which, over time became the rest of us spectating on the "clique" group who monopolised the conversations and you could see the eyes of the other mums rolling. At one, the extrovert mum introduced herself as "Jamie's mum, don't worry, he's not the bad Jamie" The other Jamie's mum was sitting next to me and blushed bright red. I knew her a bit, because her son and my daughter went to the same ASN playgroup, he's since been diagnosed with ADHD. The numbers dwindled because these parents were insufferable as a group.

The best thing you can do is leave the group WhatsApp. They will decide if they want to continue it and have meet ups.

saraclara · 12/02/2025 10:27

I'd want to rely "there is no clique, just smaller groups of people who have become friends in their own right over the last four years. Absolutely everyone is welcome to this event, and I for one am very grateful to X for continuing to organise and provide these occasions for us"

Maddy70 · 12/02/2025 10:23

She's being passive aggressive. Reply, this is obviously for everyone to get to know each other better.

rookiemere · 12/02/2025 10:20

WhatDidIComeInThisRoomFor · 12/02/2025 09:07

Pass-ag woman doesn’t make herself sound good here, I bet there is a lot of eye rolling going on amongst other mums.

So what if people form smaller groups? I bet in your DC’s year group there are mums / parents who meet up in small groups having got to know each other from waiting around together at their kids’ swimming or football or ballet classes for weeks. But because you are a visible group as you’ll chat in the playground, you’re the target.

Has anyone replied to her? I’d say - “this group is for everyone and it would be great to have a bigger crowd come along… anyone who wants to suggest and organise a night out is welcome to do so.”

This is a good response, kill her with kindness. Any response other than a thumbs up or a positive one is going to make her look like even more of an absolute idiot.

Estampie · 12/02/2025 09:27

CharityShopChic · 12/02/2025 08:32

Why can't the other mum approach OP for a chat? Why does OP have to be the official meet and greeter?

It's give and take, isn't it. If you want to be included/invited or start to make friends, you have to be prepared to do 50% of the running. And so many on MN (and presumably in general) aren't prepared to do that. They expect everyone else to approach THEM, to start conversations, proactively notice they are standing on their own and come across, to make all the effort to include them.

Also agree that on MN "extrovert" means someone who answers the door and doesn't cower in horror from making small talk with a stranger on public transport or in a shop.

This. The OP has done nothing wrong, and nor, probably, have the vast majority of the Horror School Mums who operate a system of 'cliques', 'exclusions' and 'side-eye' in the opinion of the type of poster who puts far more of her energy into complaining on the internet into actually talking to other parents in the playground.

(My DS spent his first four years of school in a village school which was in fact rather unfriendly, as virtually all other parents had gone to the school themselves and had grown up together and weren't open to a foreigner who'd just moved to the area, but you know what -- it wasn't actually their job to befriend me. I was friendly, they didn't respond, and that was OK. Sometimes a person just doesn't gel with her social environment.)

Didimum · 12/02/2025 09:20

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:52

But isn’t “coming across” subjective? My DH often comes across as a right moody bastard but he just has an angry resting face and has to say to people “I’m not in a mood it’s just my face”.

Of course it’s subjective. But we don’t know what the majority of the other mums think of your manner and why. (And when I say ‘you’ I mean the collective group).

Im not trying to say you’re being a bitch, I’m giving reasons why the other mum (not knowing either her nor any of you) may have reacted strongly to a text.

Didimum · 12/02/2025 09:17

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:50

If people think I give off unfriendly vibes that’s entirely down to how they want to see me and nothing else because I’m anything but unfriendly.

Also it would be quite awkward for six of us to crowd round a table of 2 in a tightly packed restaurant for 5 minutes.

Edited

Not you specifically, but your group. Or perhaps the organiser mum, since her message was the one targeted.

As I said, I don’t think YABU on the face of it, but subtleties matter in social contexts. Body language etc. 90% of communication is non-verbal. Maybe this mum has beef with the organiser mum.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 09:09

Yes, pass the organising stuff to the moany mum.

WhatDidIComeInThisRoomFor · 12/02/2025 09:07

Pass-ag woman doesn’t make herself sound good here, I bet there is a lot of eye rolling going on amongst other mums.

So what if people form smaller groups? I bet in your DC’s year group there are mums / parents who meet up in small groups having got to know each other from waiting around together at their kids’ swimming or football or ballet classes for weeks. But because you are a visible group as you’ll chat in the playground, you’re the target.

Has anyone replied to her? I’d say - “this group is for everyone and it would be great to have a bigger crowd come along… anyone who wants to suggest and organise a night out is welcome to do so.”

Oodlesandoodlesofnoodles · 12/02/2025 09:02

I think you should reply:

Obviously this is an open invitation for all class parents seeing as it’s being posted on the class WhatsApp group 🙄. I’m slightly confused about why you object to local people having friends and meeting up and why that’s surprising or offensive, particularly considering you were out having an exclusive evening with a school dad from the class and didn’t invite us. Laura has made the effort to organise class socials every year, they aren’t often well supported and it’s the people who don’t bother coming to them who are then offended when stronger friendships form. I will be suprised if she keeps bothering to organise any more socials after all this hassle.

Or perhaps, just from the person who organises the socials:

You know what, I’m done organising class socials. March 8th is cancelled unless someone else wants to take over.

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:52

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:49

Once again, depends how approachable they come across.

But isn’t “coming across” subjective? My DH often comes across as a right moody bastard but he just has an angry resting face and has to say to people “I’m not in a mood it’s just my face”.

OP posts:
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:50

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:12

What you are saying is fine on the face of it, but nuances matter, and you all might be giving off a generally unpleasant and unwelcoming vibe at school times/events etc.

Perhaps this particular mum found it rude that you didn’t stop for a 5 minute chat with her when you saw her, depending on how your behaviour is perceived by others. You don’t have to be ‘friends’ to give someone the time of day when you presumably see her almost every day, maybe twice a day, and/or your kids have been in school together for 3-4yrs.

If people think I give off unfriendly vibes that’s entirely down to how they want to see me and nothing else because I’m anything but unfriendly.

Also it would be quite awkward for six of us to crowd round a table of 2 in a tightly packed restaurant for 5 minutes.

OP posts:
Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:49

Once again, depends how approachable they come across.

rookiemere · 12/02/2025 08:41

You're allowed to go out with friends you have made through your DCs school, not everyone has to be invited to everything. This other DM presumably also has working digits and could take the trouble to organise a whole class DMs night out if she wanted.

Some people see a conspiracy in everything, meanwhile they don't extend the hand of friendship or indeed cordial conversation to others, but like to harp on about Queen Bees and cliques. Can't they just accept that just as in other areas of life some people naturally gravitate together, as long as it doesn't impact on the DCs in anyway then it's nobody's business.

CharityShopChic · 12/02/2025 08:32

Why can't the other mum approach OP for a chat? Why does OP have to be the official meet and greeter?

It's give and take, isn't it. If you want to be included/invited or start to make friends, you have to be prepared to do 50% of the running. And so many on MN (and presumably in general) aren't prepared to do that. They expect everyone else to approach THEM, to start conversations, proactively notice they are standing on their own and come across, to make all the effort to include them.

Also agree that on MN "extrovert" means someone who answers the door and doesn't cower in horror from making small talk with a stranger on public transport or in a shop.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:22

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:12

What you are saying is fine on the face of it, but nuances matter, and you all might be giving off a generally unpleasant and unwelcoming vibe at school times/events etc.

Perhaps this particular mum found it rude that you didn’t stop for a 5 minute chat with her when you saw her, depending on how your behaviour is perceived by others. You don’t have to be ‘friends’ to give someone the time of day when you presumably see her almost every day, maybe twice a day, and/or your kids have been in school together for 3-4yrs.

Why can't the other mum approach OP for a chat? Why does OP have to be the official meet and greeter?
If you cancel several times leaving people with booked tables, dont be surprised if people aren't chatty with you.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:17

I am with you, OP. I am always the one who does all the running, and I have no time anymore for people who don't turn up, give one word answers or simply don't match my effort.

Didimum · 12/02/2025 08:12

What you are saying is fine on the face of it, but nuances matter, and you all might be giving off a generally unpleasant and unwelcoming vibe at school times/events etc.

Perhaps this particular mum found it rude that you didn’t stop for a 5 minute chat with her when you saw her, depending on how your behaviour is perceived by others. You don’t have to be ‘friends’ to give someone the time of day when you presumably see her almost every day, maybe twice a day, and/or your kids have been in school together for 3-4yrs.

TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:11

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:03

Op, don't you know MN hates extroverts by now? You would have got sympathy if you had confessed to being terrrified of everyone at the school gates.

You have done enough and more for the flakey mums. Carry on in your supposed 'clique' and have a good time!

Haha I should have known! I quite like it when people come to the door as well even if it’s a parcel for a neighbour, somehow I don’t manage to hide behind a cushion calling 101 😂

OP posts:
TheIvyRestaurant · 12/02/2025 08:07

Spottedplant · 12/02/2025 06:42

First off, I'm completely with OP that she is allowed to go out with her friends and the other mum is a moaning Minnie.

However there is a weird thing that happens around power and authority when a group self organises, and I probably think now (after years of being completely like the OP) that when you kindly take on a role of responsibility in a group, however informally, you need to be mindful that this comes with an inevitable responsibility. Just "being kind" isn't exactly the right way to do it. In our class WhatsApp there are two specific class reps, who at the start of the year explicitly volunteered to sort the meetups and other things. At the end of each year they are showered with gratitude and someone else in the group organises a whip round and a present (contribution not compulsory!)

The fact that this is an official "role" means that the rep has to think about inclusive ways to ask people how they'd like to meet up, how often, what types of events. Coffee meet ups after drop-off? One pub meet up per term? Raucous karaoke nights every month? Picnics? It'll depend on the broader consensus of the class.

There is inertia and shyness in any big group of people and most will need to be clearly and jovially nudged even to tick the box on the poll "I don't mind, I don't have much time for meetups" or to say what they prefer.

Therefore the meetups are already transparently what the group have said and the reps explain their decision making, like "most people didn't want a Christmas drinks as this time of year is so busy so we will do two coffee mornings in March to give most people chance to check in at least". The reps will name the fact that people aren't coming and ask for the group to confirm whether it's the event that's wrong, or whether people just aren't feeling it, which is fine but could they please engage enough to say which.

When I was the rep I'd do the meetup, try and take a photo of the biggest gang there, post on the chat something really inclusive afterwards, and actively seek feedback (again) from those who hadn't come (again on the chat, not stalking!) saying how great it would be to see people next time, asking for feedback of what people had liked and what we should do differently next time.

Frankly there is a lot more hidden work in maintaining the inclusivity of a group than you might think. OP has done a quite reasonable thing inviting folks to things, events which seem sensible types of get together that she and a few others would enjoy. But she hasn't followed up over the years to see what's under the surface of others not joining. Maybe the pub is not to everyone's taste. Maybe the timing was off. Maybe there's just something about the vibe that makes people flake out and feel uneasy.

OP won't want to hear this but she has unfortunately, and with the kindest intentions, put herself in a position of authority within a class group. This means that if someone else was now to post "I've got an idea why don't we do a class meetup at X" this would feel quite weird. The person doing it might feel an insurmountable social barrier because this is the "job" of OP and friends/ clique.

So you're stuck - others might feel resentful but feel that now so much time has passed they can't change the status quo because it will be seen as a challenge to the group. Little do they know you'd like them to step up!

Basically tldr if you're the person who steps into am organising role and you don't do something quite extensive to keep it inclusive, you'll end up with people eyerolling and feeling excluded. It's not fair but that's the way it works in these strange groups of hairless chimps we call humans.

I’d love to take the credit for being the organiser or a class rep but it’s never me who does the organising (and basically for the very good points you’ve made - it’s a minefield I CBA with!).

We don’t have a class rep either - my friend just has unofficially taken on “booker of meet ups”. The PTA keep trying to recruit people to the formal class rep role but no one has ever taken it up!

OP posts:
saraclara · 12/02/2025 08:03

I'd reply "after four years of socialising, it's natural for individual friendships and smaller friendship groups to form. But this event is, if course, for all. It'd be great to see as many of you as possible"

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2025 08:03

Op, don't you know MN hates extroverts by now? You would have got sympathy if you had confessed to being terrrified of everyone at the school gates.

You have done enough and more for the flakey mums. Carry on in your supposed 'clique' and have a good time!

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