Brother constantly taking money of mum with dementia

Get her money into another account he doesn't have the details for. He's vile.

Can relate to this OP - am not POA for finance for my mum only for health so you are in a good position & like everyone is saying can use the legal obligations of the role etc to justify your actions.

The difficulty comes when your brother will no doubt claim that your mother has happily funded him pre dementia & to date & may well expose you to your DM & claim you are blocking her giving him any more, causing conflict & distress. This could breach trust between you & her if he plays you off against her. Is his spending for eg threatening her financial security or can she afford both her own care needs & fund him?

If anything like my mum who has been very codependent & funded my adult brother all his life, she defends giving him money/yet refuses to accept that he's also rinsing her at the same time, using it on his addictions & threatening her financial security. Something that pre dementia she would have drawn the line at - although it's very blurry because she is an enabler & cannot help herself. So much so that she is in debt now & cannot pay for any care she may need at home as her condition progresses. She has lost the ability to guage how much she actually has per month & overestimates how much she can spend/& enable him. When I try to explain this (the situation w/no blame /need to make sure she has financial security etc) it's met with denial & hostility & accusations of interfering in her private affairs. As a result she is refusing me setting up online banking so that greater scrutiny over her account can be made & is more than likely going to grant him access with the bank as an approved person who can draw out money on her behalf etc. as he lives with her & does the bulk atm of running her to appointments & errands etc. He does zero domestic, cleaning, gardening or personal care or support however. On the surface he appears like the dutiful son/carer & he is very kind to her. His difficulties come onto play with severe demand avoidance but it's falling to watch at the same time as he won't help in the home in any way.

My mum however is nowhere near as progressed with the disease as to be lacking capacity yet & so I feel like I am just having to sit back & watch a car crash. He has MH & autism difficulties & I do not think is an appropriate enough adult to manage her affairs (despite for years having access to her account & being fully cognisant of how much he's using & abusing it).

Sorry to derail your thread & vent my own & realise I probably need to join the Dementia Grouo on here!!!

You have my sympathies though OP because you have the poisoned chalice & are literally surrounded by a minefield of conflicts & difficulties that acting in this way may set off.

Thankfully my mum's POA for finance is a solicitor but he's been very clear that invoking it is way down the line (not that I want to - as I want to uphold her independence as much as possible).

It's a horrible position to be in but thank god your DM has someone (you) to protect her interests. Can the fact that you were chosen as her POA for finance give you any confidence in your authority in this matter? Not that you necessarily need it more to kind of remind you were chosen to do the right thing (not him?)

@Sasss1111111111 On verge of implementing. She's definitely confused but not.lost all capacity just yet so keep umming and ahhing when to implement. Will probably be sooner rather than later thanks to my brother

She doesn't have to "lose all capacity" for you to make the best interest decision and not to allow her son to take her money. What you described earlier about her having no concept of money (eg the price of her house) this sounds like she doesn't have the capacity to deal with her finances (however this may fluctuate). She may still have capacity to make other decisions in her life. You are making the right decision not to give your brother money.

You need to implement the POA now, speak to her bank and put limits on the amount of money she is able to transfer or withdraw. Then she'll still have a degree of independence on day to day spending, but won't be able to give ££ to your brother

You can also tell the bank that you believe she is being financially abused by her son. She if there are specific controls they can put in place around transfers to his account

This is so sad and awful how some people take advantage of the elderly.
It’s important to report to Social Services because if nothing else at least your concerns have been logged.

I agree with this.

Get everything set up first, people like this will do anything to get their hands on the money. That includes fraud and theft.

Implement the PoA first. Just withdraw your mum's ability to access money so she can't give him any.
If he asks just say it's not possible as it's in conflict with your legal duty as PoA.

Please make sure you have your mum's cheque book. My mum was still bankrolling my brother when she moved into care.

You need to be extremely careful here op, capacity can fluctuate and can vary depending on certain decisions - it is decision specific. You are POA and you need to act now to get proper advice otherwise you could land yourself in trouble.

I agree. Contact adult social care for advice.

Who has POA for health and welfare?

You need to finalise the POA for finances before he interferes and takes charge of this. If I were you I would raise this with social services and let them investigate because your greedy brother is financially abusing your mother.

Your brother is earning 80k and your mother who has a diagnosis of dementia is paying for him and his brood to go on holiday and god knows what else? Shame on him! I would raise a safeguarding with social services. You need to put a stop to this.

I cannot stress how very urgent it is that you implement this. I'm so sorry you're being put in this position by his selfish ways. Glad your mum has you.

Depending on how the poa for finance was set up you don't have to have lost capacity to use it. But if your mum does have capacity she can technically still give her son money. That said your brother sounds awful

Definitely use the POA to turn off the taps. You need to protect her from financial abuse.

This. If you haven't done so already, you have to activate the POA with all banks and completely remove her access.

Doing anything less is negligence of your duty as POA. She clearly does not have capacity so therefore should not be in charge or her own money.

Your brother will have to come through you in future.

I think you can stop it another way. If she no longer has capacity I don’t think she can give ‘gifts’ for the same reason.

i believe her finances can be investigated. Why not highlight this to him rather than be the one that stops it and put your kids relationships with their cousins at risk? Like, bro totally get she’s been a massive support, but now the dementia has progressed and POA has been instigated she can no longer gift, as no longer has capacity otherwise we can get in trouble with xyz agency.

Also I believe gifts can be reviewed as a deprivation of assets, if she requires local authority support for care in the future.

My mother also has dementia. It’s super stressful and upsetting. I’m sorry you are in this position. Just incase you are not a member I find this group really useful.
: https://m.facebook.com/groups/safeguardingfuturessocialcaresupport/

good luck

@Sasss1111111111 In my relatives case it required a doctor to sign off my relatives lack of capacity. If that is the same in your case, it might be worth trying to do that before you approach your DB. She might surprise you and be determined to have capacity, it’s not always straight forward… and if you can’t trigger the POA yet it will be harder to block DB influencing your mother, and if he gets wind of this he might up the ante before he gets cut off (ie before the POA can be brought into force).

I'd do it now before it gets worse. I share POA with a family member for an elderly family member. If you are jointly doing it, make sure they are honestly having your mum's best interests to heart.

Is the POA in force? Has she been deemed to have lost capacity? If so, it’s as the other posters say. If not, it’s still terrible but a bit more of a grey area.

If you have poa then you need to tell him the bank of mom is no longer open to him. How can anyone do that to their own mom who's got dementia? I'm sorry but your brother is a disgusting ponce. Please tell him asap. At least he's not poa, that wouldn't bear thinking of. So sorry about your mom op

It's actually pretty simple.

As POA you have a legal obligation to ensure your mother's money is spent in her best interests.

Your brother can ask/demand for anything he likes, but unless you can justify why spending that money directly benefits your mother then you are in breech of your responsibilities.

So no, he can't have her car (it should be sold to fund her care needs or pay for driving lessons.

You and he need be aware of legislation around deprivation of assets. Upshot is if you or he have taken money from her estate to avoid paying for care or in a reasonable anticipation she would need care (which is a given re her dementia diagnosis) you will be liable pay it back - and as POA you may be liable for criminal or civil prosecution if you have diverted funds against her best interests.

Your brother is a nasty piece of work and you can't stop him from cutting you off and the impact re: contact for the next generation.

All you can do is the best by your mother.