To believe that eating meat should be illegal?

Yes, that and smoking.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/eating-red-meat-daily-triples-heart-disease-related-chemical

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-07-21-red-and-processed-meat-linked-increased-risk-heart-disease-oxford-study-shows

Who is we? The poor have always lived, mostly badly, on little meat. But also little vegetables either. And human have tended to starve to death quite a lot throughout history.

Let's all be clear here; a notion to make meat and dairy illegal is a plan to kill a huge number of humans.

If those halal contribute to this thread, I'll argue with them too. I can 'go after' both. Wrong is wrong. Both are wrong.

Not sure I agree with the environmental argument. Bit like electric cars that don’t pollute locally and are ‘greener’ but when you consider the whole supply chain of mining for batteries, faster wear of tyres, and the small fact the national grid still have to produce electricity….

Aside from the air miles of imported food to the UK for a balanced veggie diet through our winters, there are many chemicals used in agriculture to maintain plant health and crop yield. Given recent extreme weather globally as well the UK; rain, flooding, drought etc., we are highly exposed to failed crops. More land would need to be given up. It’s very likely we’d have to move to more GM crops too, which someone will also start kicking off about.

Doesn't upset you enough not to participate in the barbarity though, does it! Enough with the faux sadness. We see through it.

Have done and it doesn't look like it's a positive choice for many to stop using guide dogs.

Either way, you're suggesting limiting the choices of some of the most underprivileged members of society in trying to reduce the impact of their disability on their lives.

It reminds me of the male leaders of Scientology who declare that women giving birth should learn to do so in silence, because they prefer it.

I am NOT the evangelical type, so I just don't eat meat - I don't preach at people.

But we're so conditioned to ignore the cruelties of meat production. We all love to see the lambs with their mums at Easter - but has anyone seen and heard those same ewes crying pitifully all day long for their lambs when they're all taken to slaughter (except some ewe lambs for breeding) after only a couple of months of life? It's extremely harrowing!

This is the kind of thing the meat industry works very hard to keep from most urban dwellers and to stop us thinking about it or joining the dots.

It was put superbly by Homer Simpson when Lisa wanted to stop eating meat:

'But Lisa, it's lamb, not A lamb!'

I agree with you but this farmer is not the one to have a go after first. Have a look at some of the Halal meat traders using units in city centres first.

Oh are you one of the people who still believes animal fat is the problem?!

I agree with your post, however one of the unintended consequences of this view is that regulation for abattoirs is so intense that there are now very very few in the uk.

What it means for small farmers like us is a 2.5 hour trip for the animals. It upsets me greatly. We’ve been trying to open an abbatoir locally for 8 years now but it’s genuinely impossible

Animals taste nice, and nothing touches the sides of a minging hangover like a greasy fry-up full of animal parts.

Get ready to welcome this months lucky heart attack ! 😄

I have a car for essential journeys.
I have the necessary electronics for modern living, but certainly not a high-tec household. Literally can't work without a laptop or phone. Can't function in society without them either (booking classes and paying for things at school etc).
I have two children. Honestly, had I been a bit wiser before I had them, i would not have brought them into this world. But they are here now. I am making them aware that whilst having them has been the best thing that ever happened to me, it is not something that everyone should feel is an obvious life path - it's more than ok to choose child-free.
I buy mostly from Vinted, partly because I can't stand shopping, and mostly for financial reasons, rather than a primarily ethical thing.
I have a weekly delivery of random fruit and veg from a local company (think oddbox or riverford, but local), but do top up at my nearest supermarket. I have tried growing my own veg, but am not very good at it yet, but we do keep trying.
I am absolutely not saying I am perfect. But I am doing my best. I truly believe animal agriculture is an easy one to fix, to make the world a better place.

I support everyones freedom to eat what they want but a plant based diet is literally that: vegetables! Why is that so hard to understand?
I have been veggie all my life as has my family.
Never had an iron deficiency
Never eaten fake meat.

I didn't say it was human emotion, did I?

But let's not pretend that a herd would happily trot to their death IF they were given a choice.

The fact they are unable to action this choice makes it more, not less abhorrent.

Sorry - me again.

As I said upthread, it's not the eating of meat that upsets me, just the production and slaughter process.

Long ago there was a TV programme where people lived for a year as Iron Age farmers. They had to slaughter a big piggy (a bit like a wild boar), but luckily, they had to do it legally and get a professional in to dispatch it. The slaughterer had a gun which shot a bolt into its head, and went into the field where the lovely pig was grazing. He just did the job in an instant and the pig collapsed immediately. That was as humane, I should think, as it's possible to be. But most animal slaughter is not like that at all.

We managed to live on just a little meat before and besides there are alternatives some clever scientists have helped out.

I have dairy goats and it’s hard to articulate how wrong you are to use such black and white thinking

Of course there are bad dairy practices but my view is that is largely down to ridiculous regulations that force farmers to be working on such thin margins

Anyway, my goats and me love milking time. You’ve all acknowledged animals have feelings and therefore you will believe me when I say that I know they love it. I don’t have to force them over, they run over to the milking shed.

On that vein, there are some dairy farms who offer cows on demand milking so they can walk into the barn themselves and get on the machine on their own. Turns out they do it more often than the traditional am / pm scheduled milking. Explain that?

Your comment highlights the exact lack of education the PP was referring to. Plant based diet does not need to include anything processed. Just like a meat eating diet does not need to include processed foods.

'He'? It doesn't sound like you're that clued up on animal biology or concerns in the first place!

Sorry but I require a species appropriate diet. But doing this as humanely as possible is a worthy goal.

Instinct, yes. But that’s just a very basic reaction. An animal will fight to live, choose to mate, call for a calf. But they won’t fear to die, or love a partner, or miss a child. Mistaking basic reactions for human emotion is just silly.

But ethically it makes no sense to me, as I think it'd far less cruel to kill an animal outright than to systematically impregnate a mammal, then separate it from its young and steal its milk.

I stayed on a camp site recently that had a herds of cattle in the field behind. We were kept awake by the cows. They were moaning and moving around all night. The noise was loud, unpleasant and unsettling. I spoke to the manager in the morning as I didn't want to stay another night if the cows continued. He said that they had been separated from their calves and would continue for some time. It was horrible, very distressing. Those animals were in a lot of distress.

Why do we continue to treat animals this way?

@LaundryPond isn't it?

Well, how do you think you're going to feed everyone without either meat or fake meat?

Google 'decline in guide dog use'. AI will help you out if you don't understand 👍