To say that prisons should be abolished altogether?

You want men who have raped babies to be rehabilitated? Men who have tortured children?

Nah. Leave them where they are, thanks

A lot of people cannot be rehabilitated

your life and job sounds similar to alot of my work and home life! I 100% agree with everything

Murderers, rapists, paedophiles, terrorists, repeat offending burglars (esp. armed ones), and arsonists all definitely all need to be kept under lock and key.

“And for all our raving about Sweden, it has the highest reported rape incidence in Europe“

This is a good thing, rapists are more likely to be convicted, victims aren’t treated like criminals, both of things increase the likelihood of rape being reported, the definition of rape here is also different so it protects more people, the change in the definition of rape led to a 75% increase in the conviction rate, like everywhere conviction rates are far too low. But a rape victim here is more likely to receive justice (and will receive appropriate care) compared to the UK. I’m not sure anyone will ever genuinely have a good enough rape conviction rate.

We do send far too many people to prison, particularly for short sentences which results in a higher crime rate rather than a lower one. It also costs tens of thousands of pounds per year to keep someone in prison. It would be interesting to see if it we were better off paying criminals decent salaries not to commit more crimes!

Problem is the Daily Mail reading lock them up and throw away the key brigade only want to hear about more people being sent to prison for longer terms, whether it improves the crime rate or not.

I suppose at the end of the day it depends on the extent to which you think prison should be punitive or rehabilitative!

Presume you’re both relatively high earners, then. My understanding is that tax in most Scandinavian countries is a lot higher for average earners than the UK but higher earners pay similar / less.

Don’t know where you live, but looking at the calculators, I’d get about 10% less in my take-home pay for the same salary if I lived in Stockholm (picked as that’s where I found a calculator for first) - and I earn above average for the UK.

Yes, I used to work with homeless people (council run hostel). The amount of people we had from prison was high. Like those from the armed forces, many were lost souls who struggled with life and were to an extent institutionalised. There was not nearly enough help for them to build and sustain a normal settled life with regular employment. Ditto for those with drug/alcohol and mental health issues. Add some of these factors together and many (men) were on a not so pleasant merry go round. Costing a lot. Prison is the tip of a social iceberg.

Of course, some people do have to detained for the safety of others, and to be accountable for their crimes. I think a lot could be done to effectively cut down on those for whom prison is a revolving door.

Really interesting to watch Parole (BBC), which shows the difficult decisions the parole board have to make. A fine balance between justified cynicism and trusting that people can (sometimes) change. Also have been watching Death Row (also BBC). Glad that we no longer go down that road. Even if sometimes I think it might be justified, in the very worst cases, I am still glad it was abolished.

Prison would need to be overhauled here, root and branch, and much better prevention and rehabilitation put in place. Even ensuring better education (so many illiterate and dyslexic prisoners) would help. This means more money and training in schools. I speak as a parent with a child with complex SEND (and someone still fighting the LA/school for any literacy provision whatsoever - DS is now 15 and has severe dyslexia) and as a dyslexia teacher.

If you are not literate how can you even fill in your Universal Credit journal or fill in a job application? For those with no support, it can mean higher odds of a descent into petty crime. We could have a smaller prison populations but we would need better safeguards against poverty and crime. Other countries have done it but I suspect it will be a long time coming in the UK, especially after 14 years of 'austerity' (well, for those who were't lining their pockets).

Some people commit crimes for which they need to be punished by the deprivation of their liberty, or which are so heinous that the rest of the population needs to be protected from them.
I have known people who lost a loved one in a horrendous crime which made the news. The idea that the perpetrator just needed rehabilitation is for the birds.

Are you going to tell us how we deal with the extremely dangerous population of people who stab and murder children and the like?

Prisons actually keep prisoners safe. Back in the days before the state could afford to set up and run prisons, criminals were just put to death or taken round the back of a wattle and daub pig shack and quietly murdered. They couldn't afford to have those types of people around and wouldn't have kept them alive in a prison because it was a waste of food and manpower. Petty criminals would have received a good beating to persuade them to behave themselves. Some criminals would have escaped and gone on the run.

We don't do any of these things now, so people are sent to jail and get to continue living. Thus, criminals are kept safe.

I think that would be fine for non-violent offenders but do you really want serial killers, terrorists and child rapists on the street?

Ooh I agree ThisAvidO or at least we should aim for way more rehabilitation and alternatives as few people locked up as possible but looks like a minority opinion.

I agree

The Scandinavian country I live in has very very low re-offending, we both pay less tax here compared to the UK.

That's interesting. I did one of my research methods modules with a criminal psychologist and one of our papers we discussed was about how stigma was a bar for pedophiles being properly reintegrated on release and therefore at higher risk of reoffending. It was very clear that our biggest concern needed to be the poor stigmatised pedophiles, and not the victims past and future. It boggles the mind what it going on in unis just now.

I think the uk law and prison systems are shit they should be tougher more like the US life means life not 10-15 year then out on tag.
however i think schools should be scraped.

Of course, fantastic idea but all the rapists, murderers and paedophiles have to live in your town

What a ridiculous idea. How exactly do you rehabilitate murderers and rapists with community service?

By all means put better rehabilitation programmes in place but inside prisons, far away from the public.

Calling… TROLL

Today's wind up thread

I’d quite like to bring back corporal punishment so I’m guessing I’m not the person who’s going to agree with you 🤣

Is this an AI generated OP?

@ThisAvidOchreEagle what a lot of rubbish!! are you a liberal by any chance??? or just a goody two shoes or just prison visitor???

You're either having a laugh, or you have no idea how dangerous a dangerous person can be.