To say that prisons should be abolished altogether?

I’m in favor of stopping the use of prison for non-violent offenders. A well-designed system of community service and therapy would be much more effective at preventing recidivism. it likely wouldn’t be cheaper.

Most violent criminals need stiffer penalties than they currently face. I don’t think violent rapists or pedophiles should ever be allowed back into society.

I think restorative justice is a dreadful idea. It puts pressure on the victim: "If you don't forgive him/allow him to retraumatise you, it's YOUR fault if he reoffends." I also highly doubt it works - how many abusers are really going to think, "OMG, I didn't realise I'd affected my victim so badly until they told me"? They'll just say all the right things to get their sentences reduced.

Meadowland · Today 21:35
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Only those people who are a danger to society should be in prison.
The others should do some meaningful pay back to society.

I think that’s a very reasonable compromise.

No they are not and many of the people making the case for fewer custodial sentences rarely come from the same communities as the offenders. It's easy to be moved by stories of a difficult childhood if you grew up in a stable, loving home and think that a less than optimum childhood is the reason people turn to crime but for those of us that grew up in and around similar situations it's far less persuasive.

Only those people who are a danger to society should be in prison.
The others should do some meaningful pay back to society.

This is a good point I hadn't thought of before. When people say violent criminals need to be integrated back into the community, they're not talking about wealthy areas, are they?

Is this a dump and run OP?

This.

YABVVVVVU Delusional even.

some people cannot be rehabilitated, they are dangerous to society.

I work with ex offenders trying to re-settle them into the community. It is incredibly difficult to lead a'normal' life once you have been in prison - think accommodation, jobs, friends etc. For many there seems little option other than to re-offend rather than being homeless and jobless. So prison does not really 'work' other than protecting the public while people are inside.

I have never worked with anyone who has not suffered major trauma - abuse as a child, addicted parents, head injuries, care system etc etc.

Like Simpson I think that many people should not be in prison at all. But there are of course murderers, rapists and other very violent criminals who need to be in prison to protect the public.

We can build more prisons and lock more people up but it does not solve the problem. That would require much more investment at an earlier stage. And I don't think the public are ready to listen to the narrative around 'prison doesn't work'.

It isn't a case of one or the other. Punishment, protection and deterrent also form part of our sentencing principles so whilst I agree that community justice should be more, and better, utilised for appropriately low level crimes, the public also require protecting from those committing dangerous crimes, and not all criminals are able to be rehabilitated.

I think the whole system needs an overhaul and there needs to be more diversion, meaningful community engagement and help after prison. But no, I cant see that abolishing them altogether is a good idea.

At least she'll sort the garden out

Yet ANOTHER thread with a ridiculous proposition that the OP only writes the opening post then vanishes!

I'm beginning to suspect they're being done by the same person with name changes.

Oh so you want Paedos rapists and child unalivers waltzing round the streets. Would you like one living next door to you and yours!
I’ll get back in my box now though as I’ll end up saying too much.

I think the problem is the disconnect between what (generally) men want and their inability to earn enough to buy it legally. Inadequate education and low wages for unskilled work direct young men into criminal pursuits as a faster path to getting what they see as necessary. I can't earn it, so I will take it anyway.

@FKAT I am for prison, you can read my post, but much more needs to be done to prevent people getting to that point.
Typical life story could be:
Addict parents
Don't like school as you're angry, you don't get the lessons, kids don't play as you smell
Abuse at home
Taken into care
Too challenging for fostering
First incident at 11
Young offenders
Don't feel safe due to prison mentality/trauma
No hope of a job as you're illiterate and have a criminal record
More crime
Prison
More abuse (raped in prison)
Become abusive to gf/ have poor mental health
More prison
No chance of employment, frustrated
Done for murder
So at any of these points, we can try to help, and some do but it is not enough

Daughter of a recidivist prisoner here - and a model 'non-violent' (HA HA) one at that. What do you find ignorant about my posts?

Working class communities are not rehab centres for damaged, violent men. That these men have had awful lives (and my father did too, no doubt) does not mean that non-custodial sentences are the right thing. What about the people who live around them? What about the women and children they abuse?

Then they're off their fucking heads too.

Editing to add that if you see my earlier post (if you haven't maybe you should learn to read!) where I say I think we send far too many people to prison.

But to single out mothers is bat shit crazy.

If you think it’s outdated then you can live next door to all the murderers, rapists and child killers if you want I’m sure the likes of Axel Rudakabana, Ian Huntley, Levi Bellfield and Roy whiting would all love to be out on the streets because all they need is rehabilitation and community justice models that will stop them from reoffending won’t it. Stop chatting absolute shite and give your head a damn good wobble. There is a reason people like them are locked up they are a danger to society they aren’t in prison because they are good people.

Yeah Sara Shariff's murdering father should be free to live his life.
Give your head a wobble op.

Prison population overwhelmingly male, so yes I agree.

I know it's the US and not here but watching one of the 'Death Row' series, it struck me how much the extreme violence (though not excusable) was a culmination of poverty and abuse in the killer's life. He so nearly escaped but let himself get dragged down. In the end, he couldn't quite outrun his past and his volcanic anger issue. He was a deeply damaged man. I know that some prisons here do have wings where people are effectively re-parented via therapeutic community. Hard work for all concerned but worth it if offenders are able to change how they react.

The dignity of the two sons of the victim (Pablo) is outstanding. Made me cry. We all have choices to make in how we deal with life.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p060lxmz/life-and-death-row-in-cold-blood?

You've nailed it. If we invested much more money in early intervention, social services, mental health treatment and so on, then I certainly believe crime rates would fall... but they wouldn't disappear. People will still commit crimes because they're horrible. Sometimes it's nature rather than nurture.

Also, I don't believe rapists rape because of childhood trauma or social inequality. (I also believe the politically correct "rape is about power, not sex" myth has been debunked - it's about both). Rapists rape because they want sex with someone who doesn't want sex with them, and they're too scummy to care about the trauma they cause their victim. It really is that simple. Rapists are often rich, powerful men who had charmed upbringings.

@Alltheyearround that's not been my experience at all. I've met women who have done very serious crimes, there is much more trauma informed, caring, rehabilitation focused work with female prisoners. Not saying that isn't correct. Many of these women have been victims throughout their lives. But so have many of the men, and they don't get that same level of support around trauma, attachment, mental health, missing their children etc.

Also we have to think about what happens to the children and the cost to them and to us overall (if they go into care their futures often are not looking good, outcomes are poor). With women offenders it is often more complex. Not saying they shouldn't have consequences but looking at the big picture is key.

So much ignorance on this thread. The majority of prisoners have had shit lives, care leavers, survivors of abuse. If you put your son through what many of these young men have been through, add in a learning disability or poor impulse control, you get a criminal. The statistics on prisoners with undiagnosed learning disabilities or autism/ adhd are shocking. Of course it doesn't excuse what they have done but it adds context.
We can't get rid of prison. But we can improve outcomes for these kids before they end up with so few choices or such a bleak future that prison isn't a deterrent. If you are a black male, in care or with shit parents, who has been coerced into a gang to get protection, or because they'll rape your sister otherwise, and you have to go get money or drugs or you'll be killed or chased away from your home. Obviously prison doesn't sound that bad.
Societal reform would do more to reduce crime than any prison or punishment.
More support for parents, universal basic income, stopping institutional racism such as black teens being essentially written off from age 14 onwards, better jobs than we have now, better childcare and intensive outreach for parents we know are struggling. Better social care. Bring back sure start centres. Legalise drugs so there's less criminal activity. Make abortion easier to get. Teach more about sex education and coercive control in schools. Actually show kids prison stats and have ex- offenders in to speak. More mental health support in school.
Just not what we're doing now.
Funny how we only care about women prisoners. It's the men who I've worked with who have stuck with me more, in terms of tragic wastes of talent.