Angela from Housing

Anyway, looks like Germany isn't in and Poland is out. Spain, Italy and Norway are trying to look busy.

There's a lot to unpack there @Sherbs12
I don't support Trump, or like Putin. I can see why the US don't want to continue paying for the war which is happening right next to the biggest trading bloc in the world.
If Europe wanted Ukraine to win, they should have made it happen when Russia invaded. They have had ample opportunity to do this over the last three years, they failed.
I don't think we can rely on unity across Europe on this issue as the right wing parties gaining ground are more likely to be sympathetic to Trump. Would the Afd or Le Pen support german/french troops going to Ukraine for example? The old guard of Europe are becoming obsolete.
We should increase defence spending, both main parties have been too complacent.

What do you think Sherbs? How do you think the UK should respond?

Yes, we need to bolster our defense spending. We also need more recruits, although I hardly see people signing up, despite their newly found enthusiasm for war. Without US on board our tough stance with Russia is no more than a dangerous performance.

I'm not apologist for Russia, who are well known for behaving like cunts, but we knew that when we reneged on our promise not to attempt to extend NATO beyond Germany in 1991. Did we think they had forgotten?

And now we want a hero's narrative so we are going to put our youngsters in danger? Well, I say our, but it's never your blood is it?

It's depressing to see how effective it is here that we have posters gung ho on sending young people

There seems to be a total ignoring of facts from the US administration: Russia invaded Ukraine and have committed many war crimes, including bombing a maternity hospital. Russia could end the war by withdrawing from Ukraine. On the same day JD Vance was hypocritically preaching on free speech and saying that Russia wasn’t a major threat, a Russian drone reportedly hit a radiation shelter protecting the damaged Chernobyl nuclear reactor.

Hegseth has caused outrage, even amongst Republican senators, for selling out Ukraine (with regards to no NATO membership and territory) before negotiations even begin. Trump has no sense of nuance, diplomacy or history: how can he be trusted to enter into fair, considered negotiations? You cannot appease the likes of Putin - this is likely to only embolden his expansionism.

If the USA are reducing their input into NATO, promoting the right wing AfD in Germany and favouring Putin, then Europe has some serious issues and dangers to consider. Does the UK have any real choice but to increase defence as an individual nation and unite as a coalition with other European countries? Genuinely, I’m really interested and open to hear the alternatives on how we navigate this.

Bless. One minute you've built a firewall of cats to keep out dissenters out of your safe space and the next minute you are hawkishly cheering on Starmer as he takes off his glasses and dresses up for war. Must be dizzying.

@HPFA Maybe try the cat thread, their views may be more to your liking.

No its actually you who is refusing to discuss the actual issue, which is should UK troops be losing their lives in Ukraine?
Do you know what it feels like to have a loved one on tour, not knowing whether they'll come back? I do.
You also didn't answer my question about sending Nato into Ukraine without the US.

Fuck. I must be old. I remember when being on the left afforded a class perspective in which sending off working class men to fight unwinnable battles was viewed with a modicum of cynicism.

Not really but I feel the same with your talking points

This thread is interesting for how right-wing politics today is just an attempt to drive people into exhaustion.

No discussion of the actual issue - no suggestion as to how we actually protect Ukraine (and European freedom). Just an endless repetition of pro Kremlin/Trump talking points. It's the same about any issue.

There would be no need for any British troops in Ukraine and they could sit there playing solitaire if Putin would stick to his own country. If anyone has a better idea as to how make Putin stay there then please tell us.

Well, if I remember rightly, they did have their fingers crossed for a Falklands moment to galvanise support for this shit show of a government. Not the same but, in a pinch, guess it will do.

Yes, they'd be happy to see coffins coming through Wootton Bassett to defend Starmer and defy Trump. It's vile.

Every cloud eh!

@TheNuthatch it's madness. You're wise to stay off it.

It just shows how far some will go if the politician they like says it.

It's actually concerning as I see it as a soft sell on SM for any escalation. Terrifying really

Meanwhile, the stocks and shares in British defence companies are going great guns today. Gosh, maybe Reeves will get some growth?

Imagine if this was Trump putting boots on the ground in Ukraine and demanding that the UK follow him!
The response from the left would be very different. I'm staying off that thread Eastern.

We already have the Starmer version

I can't believe how keen people are.

Our troops are disposable it seems for any leader who wants to improve their standing.

I wonder what cos play Macron will choose for today's meeting?
Will he go for French airforce jumpsuit? Or the unshaven, combats Zelensky look?

Very true!

Brilliant 😂

We should at least tether an atlas to the guy so he can't show us up.

Yep I agree he is dreadful

Not, what, eight months ago (?) the country was up in arms because Sunak suggested that our youngster should do national service. And there was complete outcry about how awful the suggestion was, that it was outrageous to ask them all to consider that they had a national duty to be capable of mobilising for the greater good, but other people's kids ...no problem, Russia is that way, best of luck, do us proud...

There is a fair bit of that going on