Addressing the elephant in the room; people abusing NHS, health and social care.

This is now the ballgame we are in.

There we are then. However, the grave will be a lot sooner if the young people don't get their lifestyle choices under control!!

Of course it's true. It happened to my Dad.

Discharged while still ill, unable to walk or properly feed himself. He'd been in for two weeks with bilateral pneumonia and had become very weak. They wanted the bed though.

He was supposed to be discharged to an assessment/rehab facility but they couldn't find one so just sent him home. He got much worse again, unsurprisingly, and was readmitted a few days later as the infection returned with a vengeance. He didn't improve again this second time and he died.

What is it that you are so confidently saying doesn't happen??

Crikey, people behaving like people! Whatever next? Staff should make clear what's expected of patients and what's unacceptable.

It should one strike and you're out. The NHS is being crippled by time-wasters.

I’m the troll, but you’re the one stooping to calling me obtuse. And “difficulty comprehending information” sounds a lot like you’re calling me stupid too 🙄

A few patients exercising their right to autonomy to not attend a group exercise class isn’t going to stop other patients attending that group exercise class. In fact, the ones that do go will get more one on one assistance.

My point is that even when I was told I need surgery for my breast cancer, it was still my choice to agree to the surgery or not. It was an elective surgery. Just as I have the right to refuse life saving surgery, patients in hospital have the right to refuse group exercise classes. You may not like it or agree with it, but you can’t force them to go nor can you penalise them for their decision.

Exercising your right to refuse treatment is not abuse of the NHS

I think there is good and bad on both sides.

I lived with people when I was younger who didn't bother turning up for NHS appointments at their local surgery and for stitches removal and removing plasters at the local hospital, who then expected new appointments to be made for them straightaway and complained when they weren't.

Equally, I know of people who have waited months for an appointment with their consultant, who have planned a day off work, and bought train tickets etc, only to have their appointment cancelled at the last minute, or they travelled a long way and waited a long time, only for the wrong notes to be there, or test results to be missing, at the actual appointment.

As for the examples in the council run rehabilitation unit you mention op; I have had rehab in an EU hospital after an accident on holiday, and there would be no way that the entitled behaviour you described from patients would have been tolerated. The nurses and physios , who were all very serious and professional, were in your room very early in the morning getting you up and in to the shower, and then you were sent off to the gym or the pool, and you were expected to cooperate, there simply wasn't a choice. If you wanted to stay and get better, it was very strictly on their terms, so I think management has to take some responsibility about the rules they impose and the behaviour they tolerate tbh.

Personally, I think patients paying a small, fair, mean's tested amount for their treatment would help focus minds a bit and discourage patients from blowing off appointments at the last minute and behaving in such an entitled way. And people ringing the emergency services because they want attention. Some people are prepared to pay hundreds of pounds for treatments for their pets, or pay almost a fiver for their morning coffee, and yet are not prepared to stump up a fiver towards a gp appointment? And yet what is more important than our health?

It is true. They tried to discharge my 90-something year old mother in law back her home before she was fully recovered and without anyone being there as we were on holiday. Thankfully she refused to go but a lot of other people would have just gone along with it

Ok, but it’s their choice to do them or not. Even life-saving surgery isn’t mandatory so why should a bit of group physio be?

Yes, I too agree with this.

I think we shouldn't have low expectations for how we are cared for in hospital when we're at our most vulnerable and most in need. Some of this sounds entitled, but some of it doesn't sound unreasonable, rather we shouldn't have such low standards that asking for peas instead of sweet corn is an issue for recovering patients.

Personally, I think the entitlement started with the billionaire employers helping themselves to more and more profits while dodging taxes and artificially suppressing wage growth to the point that the government has to top up the wages of the working poor just so they can live hand to mouth.

If these billionaires had not felt so entitled to pay super low wages to increase their wealth to the point that any one of them could end child poverty and still be a billionaire, then most people would actually earn enough to then pay enough taxes to keep public services going.

How do they get to the chair and why must they do it in a group setting? If it’s seated exercises why can’t they do them while sitting in bed watching TV?

Well, you are accurately repeating the stigma and discrimination that patients with EUPD, also known as Borderline Personality Disorder, face from healthcare providers. It’s quite sad really.

“Poor service” can be abuse, HTH. I don’t mean someone complaining their sandwich was shit or the lights were left on too late. I am talking about when continent people are being left to soil themselves and develop pressure sores. I consider that abuse as does the law, as do various LA and NHS safeguarding adults policies. It is often not the fault of the overworked staff but the system that allowed this. The fact this happens in 2025 is what is ridiculous.

This is ridiculous! I was obviously responding to someone that claimed that poor service from the NHS was the same as people being abused by the system which is plainly nonsense. I

Do you?

It’s good to know they’ve eradicated systemic abuse and institutional abuse. You must let the safeguarding adults teams know, they’ll be delighted at their workload being reduced by so much. A very big saving for the NHS and the tax payer.

This, I 100% agree with this.

Regarding your comment on healthcare as part of human rights, as of today UK is part of WHO, and the attached is WHO's view on it. So, it is part of human rights. You can also find it in the UN declaration and in UK's own law.
The system we are all part of includes a National Health System where you get healthcare if you live in UK. Most people do work and contribute with their taxes to the system, including the specific NIC. It is the past and current agreement. It is what is stated in UK law. Not that you need to pay for 100% of your care, here and now. Not even the US system requires this.
Are there entitled people wasting time? Yes, as per in everything in life, sadly. Picky food eaters, missing appointments are clear examples.

Are the majority of UK citizens taking the mick out of the tax and health system? Nope, not at all. They are actually getting a really bad (as in slow) service. Sometimes, sadly, it has costed people their life: see articles about too late diagnosis, deaths waiting in A&E... you have plenty of moving examples on this threat alone, of people who have and are struggling with the system, mostly due to delays or mission impossible appointments.
This is all an organisational issue, not the fault of the employees at the NHS, at all. Neither the patient's fault. Neither the tax payer. It is a government management and structure issue (including getting letters for an appointment on the same day or already past- that has happened to some)
Whenever I have to use the NHS, the nurses and doctors are great, the care I get is good and they do get how difficult is to get to the point of seeing them.

But, it is not fair to say that we are simultaneously obliged to pay taxes and then not entitled to the healthcare that is meant to come with it.

The aging population, yes, it is a major issue, the source of much of the impass and governments keep brushing it under the carpet. But this suggestion that people are no longer entitled to healthcare does not sit within my, or as far as I know, the UK's values. The solution is other, one that needs to align with our moral values. And, by the way, care of the elderly does create jobs too. It is not just a black hole.

They are two separate issues.

Yes NHS staff should be treated fairly.

No NHS staff should not redirect their employment issues/frustrations onto vulnerable patients. If they cannot see the difference and stop themselves from doing that they are in the wrong job.