We cannot continue taking on immigrants indefinitely

It's not me who's demanding millions of low paid workers come over here. It's the health care and agriculture and hospitality industry. If you are happy to pay higher taxes now to pay for UK born workers to work in social care - fair enough. Why is social and health care actively advertising for jobs in Asia? What do you think these immigrants do for their low pay? It's primarily looking after the elderly or working in agriculture or building or hospitality and tourism industry which is massive sector in the UK Those working in the social care sector mean you pay lower taxes not higher taxes! The OBR are looking at their contribution to public finances in terms of taxes over their lifetime. It won't be high because as I said UK takes low paid immigrants not highly skilled ones. But if we took highly skilled immigrants who were paid a lot, people would complain they would be taking jobs from British workers! Everyone who is not paid a lot will end up costing the UK Govt a lot of money because people tend to live a long time and tend to use up a lot of resources in terms of healthcare towards the end of their life. It's not immigrants, it's everyone who is not well paid and therefore doesn't contribute significant amount taxes. As I said Brexit made this whole situation worse because EU immigrants far more likely to return to place of birth when they are older, so they would have contributed taxes and may not have cost so much in healthcare!

There's some evidence that increases in migration increased house prices by 1 per cent but it's not that significant to be accurate.
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-and-housing-in-the-uk/

It is the Office for Budget Responsibility that has recently done a turnaround and admitted that low paid immigrants are costing the country almost half a million pounds each by the age of 75.

More if they live longer, and more if they are educated here.

This will no doubt also be true of low paid British citizens. I want the country to support low paid citizens, who I agree often do valuable jobs.

Surely you can see though, that if huge numbers of low paid people are allowed to settle here each year, while large numbers of net contributors leave each year, the country can only get poorer.

Given that GDP per capita is falling, that would suggest this is the case.

Also generally higher economic growth and population growth coincide with each other. People contribute to the economy and government by working and paying taxes and immigrants likely contribute more than average because they are younger. It's a bit strange why people think immigrants are costing the taxpayer money when I'm afraid the reality is they are saving the taxpayer money. Also it's businesses who are demanding more visas for immigrants because they like cheap labour. I am afraid older people don't contribute to the Government's coffers as much as they don't pay a lot of taxes, they take state pension which is a huge amount of money and also take up a lot of healthcare. The only way to get out of this problem is having more children or euthanase people after living a certain age. The better option is immigration!!! As for housing problem, lack of houses built and a period of time where there was low interest rates contributed to the high house prices. It was nothing to do with immigrants.

Damn I forgot to mention the underfunded social care and NHS systems meaning that many are less able to work than they would be if they were given the care and support they need, again leaving them in poverty and struggling to pay rent. So, health inequality is a huge issue in terms of housing

That Crisis link is about the housing crisis in general, not immigration or impacts of refugees and asylum seekers.

There are some very clear reasons why we are in a housing crisis:

-Extremely high mortgage rates meaning that few can afford to buy
-Increasingly inflating private rents meaning that there are fewer genuinely affordable homes available
-Welfare reform and benefit caps, including low LHA rates and TA subsidy limits meaning that fewer people who would otherwise be able to pay or top up private rent through welfare benefits cannot genuinely do this
-because of the above, local authorities are struggling to find genuine affordable options for people who are losing private tenancies, so many people are now approaching as homeless
-limited supply of social housing, RTB knock on effect and slow development meaning demand for social housing way outstrips demand
-further financial and resource pressure on homelessness services including increased duties since the Homelessness Reduction Act
-cost of living crisis meaning many people have little income left for housing costs
-loads of people have a main duty agreed under the Housing Act but councils haven't got enough social housing so loads of people are in TA, which is far more expensive than private rent (also see above re ta subsidy)

Essentially refugees and asylum seekers have nothing to do with the above. If you want to look for causes look to the greed of investors who dominate the property market, forcing up rents. Oh and the government who screwed up the economy and sent mortgage rates through the roof.

We don't need to stop immigration to end the housing crisis. We need rent control, more social housing, a fairer benefit system, more genuine opportunities for good work, selective licensing schemes, etc etc etc

It's f all to do with immigration

I'm not saying immigration is good! It's inevitable because of aging population and lower birth rate. The proof is there in the data! After Brexit, what happened? Yes lower immigration from EU. But higher immigration from Asia! Why? Because our healthcare needed immigrants especially after covid. And businesses in agriculture and tourism demanded it. Brexit was a very foolish decision for tanyone who was anti immigration as it probably directly caused far higher immigration from Asia.
Higher house prices are predominantly because of a long period of time where interest rates were low and lack of houses built in some areas. Not because immigrants are taking away housing stock! Immigrants' impact on supply is marginal. And they are likely to make houses much cheaper to build. Pensions and health care consume by far the greater proportion of spending not immigrants. It's the elderly and ageing population to blame. Immigrants tend to make public finances better not worse mainly because they are far younger and of working age.

@Appleandoranges I don't think you quite understand what unfettered immigration has done.

https://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/uk-government-proposes-linking-skills-and-training-sponsoring-migrant-workers

We have failed to invest in our young people. The competition now for any job is overwhelming.

"Your taxes are lower because immigrants are providing cheaper social care and building costs which means more homes at cheaper cost."

Nonsense. Homes are not built at a cheaper cost.

Homes have never been so expensive BECAUSE we have no houses left to house people in them.

There are too many people. Can't you see how this cycle is never-ending and self-perpetuates?

Nature in crisis:

https://www.rspb.org.uk/whats-happening/news/nature-cant-wait-solutions

The list goes on and on. We wreck our beautiful country for 1% additional gains?

It's pointless. WHY?

We must learn to live within our means.

Labour are planning to reduce immigration numbers:

https://www.fsp-law.com/return-of-the-resident-labour-market-test

So @Appleandoranges if immigration is so good, why are Labour consiering re-introducing the RLMT?

Your taxes are lower because immigrants are providing cheaper social care and building costs which means more homes at cheaper cost. They are higher because there are a far greater proportion of elderly people in the UK and we have to spend on their healthcare and pensions. If you are angry at high taxes, get angry at the old and sick and feeble not immigrants who only make NHS cheaper for the taxpayer. Also because of Brexit, there are more Asian immigrants who are unlikely to return to their place of birth. In the case of European immigrants, they would have far more likely to retire to their place of birth! Brexit likely increased UK population and immigration from places far away. So bit puzzled why those who were anti immigration voted for it!!! Absolutely all economic models more immigration equals lower debt and deficit because immigrants tend to be younger and contribute taxes. In fact the article above shows it.

"studies typically find that the fiscal impacts of migration represent less than 1% of GDP"

Is what the report says. I'm happy to give up that 1% because this isn't a fair assessment. What about land use, water use, electricity use, the list goes on and on. We are at a max level of it all. Bringing in more people without planned infrastructure is madness.

Water crisis:

"But with climate change and population growth, the demand for water is ever increasing. Many areas of England are already experiencing water shortages. In parts of Sussex, Cambridgeshire, Suffolk, and Norfolk, additional demands on water supply from businesses, and new housing developments, are putting huge pressure on water resources. "

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2024/03/21/meeting-our-water-needs-for-the-next-25-years/

Thames Water is bust.

Housing crisis:

https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/key-homelessness-policy-areas/housing/housing-supply/

Electricity crisis:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/10/capacity-crunch-on-national-grid-is-delaying-new-homes-in-uk-by-years

For the record I'm not racist!!!

But I'm genuniely worried how we house millions of extra people.

Food security crisis:

https://www.sustainweb.org/news/dec24-defra-uk-food-security-report/

For 1% extra we have constant pressure on our infrastructure.

What's the point? We must surely call a halt somewhere?

That's because immigrants tend to be younger than average and be of a working age. More immigrants equals lower deficit and debt.

Traingame's article posted actually says immigration is consistent with UK Government having lower deficits and debt! Which is I think most people would agree a good thing!

Also they don't contribute that much to GDP because they tend to low paid professions such as social care and healthcare not in highly productive well paid jobs. The UK unlike Australia doesn't take so many skilled immigrants. However the low paid ones in construction are building houses and the low paid ones in social caree are looking after elderly. So they contribute to the UK economy that way. If we took more highly skilled immigrants they would contribute much more to the UK economy but then people might complain they get paid too much and are taking away jobs from British workers! At the moment people like Farage are complaining that immigrants don't contribute much to the UK economy adn that's because UK chooses to give visas to healthcare workers who are not paid particularly well. If they gave visas to highly skilled immigrants, it would be a different story.

That's a good article - "OBR forecasts have generally estimated that higher net migration leads to lower deficits and debt, because migrants tend to be of working age."

They contribute the least: https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/#

It’s not about the existing population, it’s about the constant pressure of external people coming in. How do you propose to house million after million coming in? And what is your limit? Do we take 5 million, 20 million? All the people who ever wanted to come.

What is the limit? It isn’t there one? We have endless capacity despite being £2.7 TRILLION in national debt with interest payments getting higher every quarter.

Immigration adds at best 1% to GDP. It puts massive pressure on the NHS, public transport, infrastructure generally. We are running out of water, national grid cany keep up with demand and needs replacing.

We have zero planning forward for these people, no houses.

Currently they are living in Premier Inn for £3k per month.

This is not how I want my tax spent.

At the moment the immigrants aren't paying for pensioners so much as looking after them!

Given the UK's falling birth rate, maybe it's good thing the immigrants have dependents. I'm not sure who people think are going to be paying for their very expensive healthcare and pensions when they get elderly and retire. It's healthcare and pensions which take up a huge proportion of government spending not education or even benefits. I also don't know of many immigrants who are taking disability benefit when they come over! Most of them work in tourism/agriculture/healthcare.

Those poorly paid immigrants are often working in social care meaning you don't have to pay such high taxes! And providing care for the elderly so you don't have to. Or building houses much more cheaply. Yes - they may use the NHS and their children may go to school and get educated again providing more taxes in the future. But really what do you expect - for them to work for a pittance and not get any benefits or paid at all.

The debate whether immigration is a good or bad thing is pointless. It's only the politicians like Farage who benefit from it. The reality is ageing population plus falling birth rate means immigration is inevitable unless people are happy to accept falling pensions/much higher taxes and really poor care of the elderly in the future. Generally you shouldn't criticise immigrants for being poorly paid. We pay less taxes into social care because of it! And get cheaper buildings and cheaper farm produce! Maybe AI will mean productivity growth and we won't need so much immigration but that will take time.

Bingo! That chestnut didn't take long, did it?

With the UK's and Europe's birth rate falling, how do you think government's are going to get the taxes to fund pensions/healthcare/social care in the future too? Pensions and healthcare take up a lot more of the government's spending than any spend on immigrants! Unless workers get a lot more productive due to AI for instance, there will be immigration. It's inevitable. It's a bit weird how people think that the economy is unsustainable because of immigration! It's actually the opposite way round - it's unsustainable without immigration. Which is why UK's farms/businesses/healthcare are requesting Gov provide more immigrant visas. The public may be demanding less immigration but businesses and healthcare are demanding more. Unless you know of lots of UK born workers out there who are happy to work in old people's homes and farms for a pittance, there will be immigration.

Of the 5 million plus who have come in over the last 4 years, there were multiple dependents for every worker.