Is being a registered nursen a working class occupation

I would say nursing is a middle class profession as it requires a degree. Nurses aren't particularly well paid but that's not really the same thing as class.

I think by the time you started work in the 80’s,
it was male dominated.

i was talking about much further back. The 60’s saw a decrease in women and it become male
dominated.

most of the programmers working at Bletchley Park during WW2 were women and that wasn’t just because the men had gone off to fight.

It's working class.

My ex taught a specialised module on a university nursing degree course years ago. Two things shocked him. The overall really poor level of intellect and also, surprisingly, obvious lack of compassion and empathy in many of the students.

Think High Court Judge, senior airline pilot, Army General, Admiral.....

Hmm. Don't think that was always the case, although in some places it might have applied.

I did a Computer Science degree in the early 1980s and spent my summer holidays and one whole year out getting work experience in the computer department of a large organizations that was still a nationalised industry in those days.

Elements of what you say were certainly evident. It was a very hierarchical set up and in general the software was designed and specified by systems analyst or analyst/programmers, often down to detailed flow chart level. Then "coders" turned these very detailed designs into code written on special coding sheets. These sheets were then sent to a data prep department who typed them in to the main frame. It was the case that most of the people higher up the chain were male, at coder level quite a lot more women but still some men. Data prep exclusively female.

I found it a little strange as:
a. I was used to being one of only a small handful of women on a largely male dominated course
b. I was used to defining my own algorithms for things by then.

Actually the approach and attitudes to the work were already starting to change even then and the team I was on were happy mostly to cut straight to letting the coders do more of the real work.

My aunt only had her Leaving Certificate. She'd left school at 12 in order to earn for the family - had to get permission to sit the certificate two years early, but was allowed to do so because she was top of the class and the family needed her earnings.

ETA She would have been 21 when the war broke out.

I think it's more that there was a brief period when pay wasn't quite so bad. But nurses' pay was usually absolutely terrible. During the Second World War a staff nurse in London was paid about half what a landgirl was paid, after deducting board and lodging for each. Landgirls obviously worked hard, long hours, but there was little required in terms of education or training, and the nurses' hours were at least as long.

Definitely worthwhile, and you certainly had to be capable not just of studying but of studying on top of a 60-80 hour working week. But I don't think you had to have a specific education or background; my grandmother and her sisters certainly weren't stupid, and coped with all the studying required, but had left school at the minimum leaving age, no grammar or secondary education at all.
The "studying around working" wasn't just a wartime necessity, it was the permanent structure. My grandmother said they usually held lectures from 8am to 10am so that the probationer nurses coming off night shifts could sleep through them attend.
She trained in the Liverpool Royal Infirmary, moved to London in 1935 after she qualified, and was a staff nurse - sister - matron in a couple of different hospitals in London throughout the Second World War.

There’s no doubt it’s hard work, but not as intellectually demanding as other courses.

and it won’t be - it’s a practical course. Doesn’t mean you aren’t clever if you do it.

On the contrary it could be argued that nursing is one of the hardest degree courses. The students have to do several assignments each year, as well as practicals (OSCEs), and in the last year exams and a dissertation as well. All alongside doing 2300 unpaid hours of placement - 12.5 hour shifts, often overnight. Young people doing traditional courses are in a completely different universe when it comes to university experience.

And now there is a freeze on recruitment so the big selling point - walking into a job on graduation - has gone too.

Why?

Your first post gives the impression, to me anyway, that you consider it somehow a slur to describe a person or profession as working class. Is that the case?

Traditionally working class skills were acquired through paid on the job training, via apprenticeships, and middle class professions through education which sacrifices several years of potential earnings.

I think we all need to resist the Scourge of the class labels….it’s outmoded and creates underclasses. Be done with them! By gad! Says this woman born in a working class environment and down with inverted snobbery/ snobbery too!

This is so true.

By contrast, IT used to be female dominated. ‘Coding’ of early computers was seen as women’s work and it was badly paid.

Now that it’s male dominated, it’s highly paid and seen as a prestigious job

Enrolled nurses were bring phased out when I started my nurse training in the 1993 ,whilst the training wasent as rigorous as registered nurses from my understanding they still had exams and essays etc to pass ,and they might still have had to have 2/3 Olevels
And yes whilst theu had some responsibility, they didn't have the sme level of responsibility as registered nurses
When I started my training the entry level was still Set as a minimum of 5 Olevels/ GCSE,s ( at grade C and above) including English and Maths or a science
Alternatively candidates could sit a DC test which was a beleive an IQ test if they didn't have the minimum entry requirements
Ironically we now have Nursing associates which is a two year course and appears to be similar to the enrolled nurses, role .

Well they aren’t in Call the Midwife. I think nursing was always a respectable profession for quite well to do girls to go into. Patsy Mount and Chummy for example! It’s probably more working class nowadays.

Lady X, born to a landed gentry family could become a nurse. Would that make her working class? Of course it wouldn't.

This MN obsession with all the markers which define people into a certain class because they earn this much, shop at certain retailers, do that job, have this interest or hobby - well it drives me round the twist.

Also different levels of qualification.

Both of my elder sisters qualified in the early 1970s. In those days the main qualification was State Registered Nurse. This was a 3 year course which was a combination of placement on wards to get experience at different types of nursing and time in the lecture theatre, plus lots of private study and final exams at the end. There was a minimum age of 18 and some academic requirements, I think it was something like 5 O-levels. That might not sound much now but 50 odd years ago getting 5 O levels was a pretty decent achievement. Neither of my sisters went to Grammar school but they both managed to get the required number of O levels, one of them after some resits. Both qualified and had successful careers in nursing.

There was a lower qualification called State Enrolled Nurse which did not have the same entry requirements and was only a two year course. I think with that you could work on wards but never be a ward sister, for example.

Obviously incorrect. Wing commander. Police commissioner. Admiral. Pilot. Judge

Yeah, that's not at all how class works.

I’m not sure of the purpose of this thread. This website has an obsession with nurses and teachers and running them down. All I can think of is it’s an internalised misogyny. You don’t have thread after thread picking apart and analysing typically male dominated jobs.

Nursing is unique in that it’s a highly skilled safety critical, in demand profession that is paid relative peanuts. That is because it is worked in by women and not because of the so called ‘class’ of those women. Nursing is a diverse (except for sex) group of people and always has been.

I don't think working or middle class works so well, there more newly defined emergent service worker class fits better

@LondonLawyer I can only say that DMs friends came directly from school and started as nursing auxiliaries at 16 prior to training. There was a requirement for “war work” so of course there were other recruits into the profession. Yes, they worked and studied at the same time. No blocks of study because it was vital to work amongst bombs: more than fill time for essentially pocket money as the nursing hostel was fully catered. However people with limited educational ability would never pass the exams and we had loads of grammar schools at that point. Being a SRN was considered worthwhile. Maybe our relatives worked together!

Doctor in scrubs?
Barrister?
Judge?
Army officer?
Pilot?