If you’re married to a surgeon please tell me if you think I’m being unfair?

You're in the trenches with a young child. Most family set ups work best if one or both of you are part time or have some flex - your only flex is working at home so you are up against it.
It will get worse until about age 7 and then it will gradually get easier.
Of course, it's up to you and you alone what you find reasonable. And it depends what conversations you have had about careers and fairness before now.
I think your weekend arrangement is good, stick with that.
I wouldn't expect him to stick to an agreed time home - it's not realistic with the job in my view - but is he making every effort to get home at a good time when possible.
I would suggest he takes on 100% responsibility for some non time dependent tasks across the week (online grocery shop, washing clothes, cleaning bathrooms).

It’s more than lots of us get… I’d settle for 2 hours

I'm a dr, but not a surgeon.

Sounds like the OP's husband is a registrar (for non -drs this is someone who is fully qualified as a dr, has done postgraduate exams, and is in the last part of training to become a consultant, which is usually 4-5 years, although can be more if does a PhD or a fellowship to gain extra experience).

Although I am not a surgeon, I am aware that the hardest part of the job is getting the hands on experience of doing surgery- the way that training is set up these days means that people get a lot less experience than they would have done before. There are good reasons for this - we operate far less overnight, and only for life or limb threatening issues, as we know that the days of fairly junior surgeons just being expected to get on with operating on anything that came in, regardless of time of day, wasn't safe and led to patient harm, but it does result in less experience overall, and so most surgeons are desperate to get to theatre for operations (after all, they became surgeons because they enjoy operating).

Again, for important training reasons surgeons are not expected to simply turn up in theatre and be allowed to do the op- they generally need to know the patient's case, which means reasing the notes, familiarising themselves with what's been going on, and meeting/examining the patient, all of which takes time before the actual operation. There is a strong culture/expectation of showing commitment by doing such things, and when you are a registrar, most people want to impress their bosses, as they can potentially be applying for a job in that hospital.

As a registrar, there is much less flexibility compared to being a consultant. It is likely that once a consultant, if they are in a specialty that does on calls, they will have a day free in the week (some of them choose to do private practice in that time, but they may not), and also have the ability to do some admin from home. They can potentially request to do LTFT (less than full time training - note that even LTFT training in medicine means working what most people would consider a FT job - a standard medical training job is approximately 48hrs/week - so an 80% LTFT job will be working 38.4 hours). Traditionally (not just in medicine) it has been unusual for men to go LTFT for childcare reasons, and there is still a worry that by doing so, they can be perceived as "less committed".

A 6am start is likely to be because Op's husband is in a hospital that is some distance away - again, this is not something he can control during training, as they are required to move around different hospitals in the region while training.

It sounds like he is making an effort in terms of taking the kids out at a weekend to spend time with them and to give OP a break, but it also sounds as if the timing is not so good for OP, and OP is not feeling valued or recognised that he is able to do what he does because she is holding the fort.

I'd suggest a good talk, at a time when neither of you are feeling more stressed that usual, about your feelings and the options to manage this. There are lots of things that can be considered - husband going LTFT (but note above comments, or if he is close to finishing traing, he may just want to push through for 1-2 years FT to get there), buying in help such as afterschool care, mother's help to help with the drop offs, cleaner, a list of jobs that are his responsibility in the week, things that he can do at the weekend to prepare for the week and make life easier, or simply a commitment that on one/two evening per week, he will be home (barring TRUE emergencies) at a certain time and do all bath/bedtime etc. In the last situation, it wouldn't be a fixed day, due to on call rotas, but you ought to be able to look at his rota for the next 2-4 weeks and pick out a day from each week that suits.

Also, talk about what he thinks a consultant job might look like - think about compressed hours for example. I know a (male) paediatric cardiologist who does compressed hours to have 1 day in the week free for family time.

The family I know where both are hospital doctors (not surgeons) have a nanny instead of nursery. Might this be a better option for your set up?

Depends whether you signed up to be the facilitator for his life so he can have the glittering career and get to be a dad with no inconvenience to him while you compromise your career and life to serve him. Is your time worth less than his? Are you fully human or less human than him with fewer rights than him? When he looks after your child on the weekend are you supposed to feel grateful that he is "helping " you and that really it's your duty to be the parent and he doesn't have 50:50 responsibility for the child with you? Would he do all the parenting if you were a surgeon and he also worked full time? Have a look at the Fair Play card deck which helps couples to split domestic tasks. Also a great book is This American Ex Wife amzn.eu/d/2Vc2ogD

FWIW my DH doesn't get 6 hours a week to himself either. He works long hours, I work school hours. Weekends are family time and catching up on housework, gardening etc.. We might get a few hours a week each to do our own hobbies, see friends etc., but there isn't enough time in the week for us both to have 6 hours in a row to ourselves and for everything to still get done. I appreciate things are less stressful for me than OP as I only work school hours, but I have two ND children so it's not really a walk in the park.

Who is to say the OP’s job is not meaningful? She works full time too. OP, get some childcare/cleaning help to lessen the load

Maybe you can come up with a compromise or a schedule that works for both of you. Your feelings are valid and you deserve to feel supported. Don't hesitate to voice your concerns and feelings to DP. You're not alone in this, and I hope you find a resolution that works for both of you.

I think when he is at work it’s uncontrollable. But when he is at home it doesn’t stop him caring and being interested about you and dd. I married someone who expected me to do it all because he earned more. No longer together but for a multitude of reasons. It sounds like a lonely place op. You can’t change him but you can both consider therapy maybe he will understand more that way.

it’s only a job, he’s not god. Tbh though the you doing nursery runs and getting a bit of downtime at the weekend doesn’t sound bad, but if he’s also doing fuck all in the house, get a cleaner in. Ultimately though life with wee ones is simply just hard work and hard going - it does get easier x

DH leaves for work at 6:30am, comes home at 6-7pm, 5 days a week and is often away for seminars and trainings on the weekends.

This is not unique to surgeons.
Funny how women (or men) married to surgeons think this workload is unique to surgeons.

There are many other careers where that kind of work is the norm- anything at exec/board level in the private sector, investment banking, private equity roles, to name a few.

My DH was out of the house that much as well as being away overnight during the week, quite often. And long haul flights cutting into our weekends.

I have friends who husbands were travelling internationally for 75% of the year.

Dh and I made a pact- I could never match his earnings even working full time, so my career took 2nd place. I worked part time. It wasn't ideal and I often felt frustrated. I had no family nearby to help out.

You don't mention employing a nanny to do nursery pickups, or maybe a cleaner/housekeeper to help with the chores.

It's no good complaining @Likao . You need to sit down and talk to each other, without arguing, and maybe consider couples' counselling.

I'm not really sure what you expect your husband to do. He can't just walk out mid-surgery because you want him to help with bedtime, nor can he cancel the last operation of the day because you'd rather he did the school run.

Some professions come with flexibility, others don't. Unfortunately you married someone who falls into the latter category.

Hi OP. I'm sorry you're struggling. I was married to a surgeon but we split some time ago. My experience may be less relevant as we did not have children but he did work mad hours (in for 7am, sometimes not out for over 12 hours). He was in orthopaedics and also covered trauma which was completely unpredictable. Lots of time prepping for exams, publishing research to develop CV etc. they were tricky times but it had to be done for progression.

We were together in the Specialist Registrar years so he moved around every year to a new hospital although we had a house and he would come back for weekends when not on call and we would do things together. I appreciate you feel very stretched but he does seem to be really trying to make the effort to give you a break at the weekend.

I know as an experienced consultant many work part time and have much more flexibility but I appreciate this may not be relevant at the moment.

I would echo others in outsourcing as much as possible so you can enjoy the weekends and engage in some activities for yourself during the weekday evenings if possible. Do you have any local family who would babysit for a few hours so you can pursue something for yourself in the evening?

I'm a completely solo parent and have been from the birth of my child ( now in late primary years) so I understand the feeling of having to pick everything up but stepping away a couple of times a week really helped me. I also compressed my.hours to buy back one day a fortnight which I spend doing what I would like. Is this possible for you? Do you need to work FT at the moment?

Good luck to you both. I appreciate the challenges of both of your situations. I hope you manage to work things out

My husband was a surgeon. He was always up early as were the children. He always did breakfast with them as that was his time with them. Leave me in bed with coffee to wake up. He was out at 7.30.
Weekends we shared jobs, alternating naps. I was a SAHM but he always acknowledged that he could do his job because I did everything else. Not only was he a consultant but he was on national committees . When he was home he was fully present.
Unusually he was very grounded . Cleaners & odd job people are your friends!!!!!

Full & open conversation is what you need OP. Best of luck it’s not always mentally easy .

In fact it seems like the OP gets more downtime than he does which is the key measure in this sort of scenario imho.

Trust me, surgeons build enough downtime in their lives! They have a bazillion colleagues on their Whatsapp chats swapping work stories and dodgy memes. They take advantage of the buffer time needed to get changed after work to stretch that into an extra-long coffee break, a lengthy phone call or catching up with people. They usually have a long commute and plan a few errands along the way whilst listening to music and decompressing after a long day (without screaming kids in the backseat). They will have at least 4-6 weekend seminars or workshops throughout the year that are tax-deductible and held at fancy hotels in fun locations. They will also have at least 1-3 boys holidays with many of the friends or colleagues mentioned above.

They both work full time and they both have time at home when they're not working and not asleep. He doesn't spend 16 hours a day 5 days a week 'at work' unless he's choosing to significantly increase his hours above the standard 37.5 hours a week NHS working pattern and if he is, he needs to pay to cover the housekeeping duties that he's not doing his share of.

The OP also works full time and not all ''office work' is stress free or limited to standard hours.

It's not only the job, it is the obsession with the job that is problematic with most surgeons. It's so demanding that only the most obsessed can rise to the top. I know things are changing and doctors are fighting for even more change, but to get the best results out of their placements surgeons still do need to work long hours and be very available outside of those hours

I've dated lots of surgeons, and that was convenient at the time (cos we worked in the same places), but no way would I have married one or even had a long-term relationship, because I didn't want to move when they had to, let alone always be bottom of the queue for attention. You will never be number one with a surgeon, and that shows up early on in dating, so it isn't unreasonable to point out that OP surely knew what she was getting into.

I knew one female consultant at the time, and she was 'part time' in order to get a normal amount of working hours. Maybe that is more common for both sexes now, but my impression from friends is that it isn't.

Whilst consultant hours are less, lots of them are so involved with the job and their teams that they stay on for long hours, and others take second (private) jobs, or open their own private clinics. I don't think their families can compete with their work, on the whole.

It's also said that surgery has one of the highest rates of psychopaths of any profession. IME that's true too. And being obsessed with your work is a lot easier if you have someone dealing with the home stuff.

This chap gives OP a 'day off' - that's more than my ex-husband did, and he wasn't a surgeon.

Said an anaesthetic cons: when I send the trainee home early it's because I would much rather be alone than be with them.

Your life sounds almost identical to mine. It's actually slightly comforting to know that seems like the norm of being married to a surgeon. I'm also self-employed with the potential to earn a lot (which I have in the past) but it's become increasingly impossible to work because I'm tied up with childcare every day of the week and do 100% of the time off when DD is ill.

Doctors do differ between their attitudes but the vast majority are married to their work. They CAN cut down hours or stop surgeries if they wanted to but most of them obviously won't. It's rare enough to be married to a surgeon, and you'd have to be in the 0.1% of that population to get one who is also willing to pull their weight at home. It's unicorn statistics and simply unrealistic on every level. Most other surgeon/doctor wives I know either end up divorcing or are happy doing all the parenting and domestic tasks.

This isn't something that anyone is really aware of before they get into the relationship. With the WFH culture, most couples have ended up with more opportunities for the man to help with childcare, dropoffs, appointments etc but medicine is one area where that's just not possible. DH leaves for work at 6:30am, comes home at 6-7pm, 5 days a week and is often away for seminars and trainings on the weekends.

We're just kind of in a limbo where every 3-4 months I get a mental breakdown from the stress of juggling childcare, my work, home chores, cooking etc. We have a few days of fighting and shouting and come up with a few points that could make things easier. These help a bit but then invariably something unplanned comes along that makes life tricky again.

Another thing I will probably get slated for for saying here is that you require mental load to alleviate mental load. Someone needs to hire and train nannies, fire them if it's not working out, manage the cleaners schedule (eg ensure everything is washed and ready for ironing), manage workers coming to the house, be the point of contact for random home appointments and constantly adjust your own schedule so you can accommodate all these people. It takes a significant amount of mental planning and physical time from your day. This is time you can't be working yourself the same way a husband who gets to leave the house and focus 100% on a job can. It's also often easier to just do things yourself then delegate.

He looks after the child solo for 6 hours a week (probably a large percentage of his time off work) and could be doing more cleaning in that time if he was allowed to be at home. I don't think he's doing an unreasonable amount and the balance of labour seems pretty fair - in fact it seems like the OP gets more downtime than he does which is the key measure in this sort of scenario imho.

Could you afford to hire a part time housekeeper/laundry service/cleaner etc etc?

I have worked with a lot of surgeons (male and female) I think your husband is entirely wedded to the unique work culture. I suspect he has worked very hard to get where he is and domesticity has never featured in his life. He will probably be working stupid hours (depending on the type of surgery he does) in a culture where there are a lot of driven people doing the same. Has he always had someone at home that enables him to have complete focus on his studies/work? He just doesn't see it.
He really doesn't see that running a house and being parents requires a lot of team work. Sorry to be blunt but I don't think he's going to change. You either have to accept it, leave or buy in help. The surgeons I have known have a particularly high divorce rate.
Strangely female surgeons (like the PP above) get on with it all but they are absolutely amazing superhumans. A lot chose to be single. Good luck.

Being a doctors wife is tough but I don’t see how they can change it? Can’t put a cancer patient on hold or an acute emergency op? Surgery is a tough profession to be in, for the partner doing it and for the partner at home, add a little one in to the mix and it becomes high stress for a while. You grow into the role, you’re the senior domestic engineer in addition to your own work. I had a few very supportive friends and relatives and I needed them. If there are other medical wives it helps. It is really tough, I was post natally depressed with one of mine which made it tough but I had a fantastic health visitor who really saw me and got me out and about with little one even helping me find a dance class with a crèche, amazing woman, I’ll never forget her. So kind.

So get out and about is what I’d say, surround your self with friends and interests. It’s not that he won’t support you it’s that he can’t. His work simply takes all his concentration if he’s to be a decent surgeon. I hope he spares you a thought from time to time. Working from home with an infant is tough too and an absolutely vital role. If you can find a church play group it can be great as there is play for them and companionship for you. Mine had a great coffee shop to so it was perfect. As baby grows it gets easier believe me. Pull on every source of support you can think of when it’s rough, outsource what you can when the babies are small so you’re not exhausted. Maybe you could communicate to him when you feel calm that your finding things very full on and the emotional support would be appreciated. But use your own health carers for all other health support though, you need and require your own health team. Counselling the same. Doctors are not always good at seeing that their own need help. You look after you kind of thing. You survive it and if you have the right one you’ll get through, early career for surgeons as you know is tough, very harsh rotations and on calls as I’ve said just make sure you have your own support network it does get easier though as the children grow. I wish you luck with it, keep your chin up and look outward. Have a good weekend and good luck.

I know another couple under 40 - one a CEO who works 24/7 , his wife with a very snr role in a company.

They have 2 children under 5.
They have a nanny and a cleaner.

Can't you think about help OP?

He's been saving lives all day. He's not 'at home' 6 days a week- he's working!
Can you imagine the emotional toll of that?
Seriously, what do you expect him to do when he comes home? Their child is only 2 so she will be in bed by the time he comes home I assume.