For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

In the absence of third spaces, disabled spaces may unfortunately be the obvious choice….not that that’s acceptable but seeing as in many places the only changing table accessible to a man will be in the disabled space, ( or even the only changing table available full stop is in the disabled space) there is a requirement for venues to consider the needs of their disabled clients separately from the needs of their customers who need non-sexed access to kid’s facilities.

WTF? One for children/transpeople? So it’s fine for kids to share a space with adults of the opposite sex as long as they claim a trans identity? Gosh, I can’t see that being abused at all, can you???

To be honest, I find it incredibly uncomfortable when women bring their sons into the changing rooms.

Linked to my post re age appropraite expectations, I always think that there's an invisible, and yet weirdly obvious, line that once a boy crosses, makes him someone no one wants to have in the women's changing room. I don't think its linked to size but awareness maybe. That boy who suddenly IS noticing women and girls naked vs the one who's just running around and our inbuilt radars immediately recognise it?. I definitely started noticing DS was aware of the difference between men and women and girls in changing rooms from when he was abot 7 and I started escalating his "must learn to be independent in the changing room" lessons at that point. He was using the mens therefore before he actually turned 8.

He is a dick

YANBU that the man shouldn't be going into the women's changing room. But it is also unreasonable for him to take her into the men's changing room. Children should never be taken into the opposite sex's changing room, it's a form of abuse. It's the parent's responsibility to make appropriate arrangements, not everyone else's to bend over backwards to accomodate them.

The solution is to have three sets of changing rooms, one for adult men, one for adult women and one for children/transpeople. If segregated facilities are needed, they should be kept segregated. I suppose the other alternative is just get rid of segregation and have it as a free-for-all that anyone can use, like they did when they got rid of racial segregation in the US.

To be honest, I find it incredibly uncomfortable when women bring their sons into the changing rooms.

It works both ways - there needs to be e a third “family changing rooms” option made up of large cubicles so families of any composition can change together and without encroaching on single sex spaces.

If you think a straight bloke In the women's changing rooms isn't going to take advantage of being there to get as many eyefulls as possible, you're on glue. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he engineered the "mistake" of turning up during adult swim in order to use his daughter as a fig leaf for perving at women. Being a father to a girl doesn't stop a man from being a pervert.

As a slight change in topic, I am also very interested in how many people think 8 year olds aren't capable of changing by themselves. I used to take DD swimming and it was infuriating how many women would bring boys who were obviously significantly older into the change rooms with them. These boys would often run riot around the change room and it was particularly unpleasant for the small group of slightly older girls who had a lesson around the same time.

I think the 8 year old limit is a useful one and actually, it should serve as a guideline to parents about what their childen should be able to do by then. Certainly, going quickly into a change room to get dressed alone should not be beyond a NT child at that age. I appreciate it can be a bit scary and you worry about how they would respond to certain situations, but that is part of the process of parenting them - they have to learn.

Did you think seperate changing rooms were a myth?

The little girl's father clearly hadn't thought it through and was so entitled to turn up outside of the designated family swimming times and just expect everyone to accommodate him. If he is that uncomfortable about taking her into the men's changing area he should have checked the changing room arrangements before visiting the pool. I just feel sorry for the little girl having such a twat for a father!

They use the changing room appropriate for the adult or the girl gets changed in the women's and he waits outside.

It is tricky , I have a disabled son who nearly ten he can't change independently. The first swimming lessons we tried when he was 7 had no disabled or family change so we had to use women's. I did feel a bit uncomfortable. Now we go to a disability swimming class which has family cubicles.

Even if you daughter had a physical or mental disability she should be in the men’s or the disabled changing rooms if she’s with her dad

I would mind a lot. My rights to single-sex spaces are not yours to give away.

He’s meant to take them in the men’s. Where did you think he should take them? Where do you think parents of mixed sex children take their kids?

He had more than one option (men’s or own room) and yet, felt entitled to invade the women’s only space because that was more convenient to him. No. Normalise calling this out.

Yes, be polite, but you’re allowed to assert yourself in a stressful situation and people who put you in that position do not have the right to expect you to be at your most diplomatic.

#metoo, Earlier this year I objected to a visibly drunk man who made a convenience out of the women’s toilets because the men’s were “not working” (he lied - they were just further away). He was aggressive instead of apologising, all up in my face swearing about how he just needed to pee, what was the big deal, did I want him to do it here on my feet? I just kept responding: then use the men’s. Don’t come in here. Luckily we were in an airport and the police stepped in.

It’s a really aggravating form of everyday sexism, this sense of entitlement whereby the man demands to access the space because “I need to xyz, etc” but the “need” is actually a preference. The proper approach just doesn’t suit him personally in the moment.

This. And therefore is it ok for little boys to look at random naked women ? Or should I go into the men’s when I bring my 4 year old boy swimming .

I have two daughters who go to swimming. They both need help changing. I wouldn’t take them to a facility that doesn’t cater to children/families. You were right to flag this even though I feel bad for the little one. Her father should know better.

I’d 100% feel unsafe with a man walking into MY space while I was naked. I’d feel unsafe with it fully clothed in fact

How do you know one dad is "creepy", over several men? I'm sure he'd be more concerned helping his small child getting dried and dressed, over trying to snatch a glance at any wobbly bits.

Why is she looking at naked men? Her dad tells her to close her eyes or look at the floor. Not rocket science

no its not the most appropriate option
unless he or his child is disabled.

I don't think it's appropriate for a little girl to get changed in the mens changing room, but it's certainly not right for an adult male to go into the WOMEN'S changing room with them. She obviously wasn't old enough to go in on her own, so he should have taken her straight up to their room.

I wish pools would be built so that there is space around the side for larger cubicles that parents can use with their children.

FFS stop going in men’s changing rooms. It isn’t for you.

In general, it would be great if pools had a third, mixed changing room for this purpose. But in the situation as it was, the Dad was incredibly unreasonable!

No little girl should have to get naked in front of men or be exposed to seeing them naked.

But why not!?

I don't understand this.

There are two separate issue here:

Issue 1: Men are more likely (but not not all men, and not only men) to be a danger to women and children. Small children and women therefore need protection from men. In the case of a changing room, a man with his daughter is fine because the man is there to protect his daughter.

Issue 2: Most people do not feel comfortable being naked or undressed or vulnerable in the presence of people of the opposite sex. This is even more true for women and girls because of Issue 1 above. So safeguarding and making people feel safe and comfortable is an important reason for same sex spaces. However, small children do not, as a rule, feel any concern about being naked in front of anyone and therefore this is NOT a concern in the case of a man taking a young female child into a men's bathroom.