To wonder what would happen if LL were ever released?

I understand from Dr Lee’s press conference that the full term baby had been born after prolonged premature rupture of membranes. The mother had not been given prophylactic antibiotics, and post-birth treatment was delayed. These are facts (unless treatment was given that was not documented).

Dr Lee’s team concluded that the baby died from systemic sepsis, pneumonia and disseminated intravascular coagulation. Not an air embolism, as was claimed at the trial.

Wasn't the full term baby the one who had several risk factors for infection? That's the one my relative said had really bad care from the beginning.

To answer some of your questions doubt very much that a healthy baby was in the highest level of intensive care was just waiting to go home, it costs money to give that level of intensive care, if that bed was full then they would had to pay out to another hospitals to care for another high risk baby. It doesn’t make sense.
fishing paper towels out of the bin. As any nurse will know paper towels can actually be filed in hospital notes, she may have wanted to keep it if she needed to write a statement . This is not unusual behaviour. Lots of us before Covid had hand written work sheets in our pockets & we went home in uniform the work sheet would be at home, again not unusual.
These incidents might be unusual in today’s climate but then it wasn’t. Hope that has given you a different view of those incidents.

Yes I watched it.

One of the babies had blood around their mouth. The mother found LL with the baby and she hadn’t raised any alarms and told the mother to leave."

@Toddlerhelpplease123 - was this given as evidence in the trial? None of the babies died of anything that blood around the mouth would indicate

I basically went on the same journey but now I have come back round to I do think she is guilty due to the circumstancial evidence. It’s not beyond reasonable doubt so I think she will be freed. But in the balance of probabilities Im veering back again towards guilty now.

Some of the babies were not the higher care needs babies. There was a full term baby who was only there because of the mother’s health; and others about to be sent home.

It’s also the paper towel for me. Why would someone go to the effort of fishing a paper towel out of a bin and store it.

And these sheets were trophies for her. She kept her first ever handover sheet in the special box.

Yes but that would be between her and the hospital, or whoever that guy works for. It wouldn't be the justice system that compensate her.

Yes I watched it.

One of the babies had blood around their mouth. The mother found LL with the baby and she hadn’t raised any alarms and told the mother to leave."

@Toddlerhelpplease123 - was this given as evidence in the trial? None of the babies died of anything that blood around the mouth would indicate

In this case the original post mortems showed natural causes and there is good reason to believe that Letby was scapegoated for.the failures of the hospital. Even Dr Dewi Evans who wrote a report for the prosecution (that another judge warned the trial judge not to accept), said that if sewage was found in the unit, it should have been closed down until the problem was resolved. He still believes she's a murderer.

You don't get compensation if it's believed they had good reason to convict you from my understanding of how it works. I do actually vaguely know someone who had a serious conviction overturned and that's why he didn't get any compensation. The new evidence was based on newer technology that wasn't available at the time so they said the conviction was based on the evidence presented. He's got nothing from it and did 7 years.

I guess Witness Protection, or whatever the UK equivalent is.

You don't get compensation if it's believed they had good reason to convict you from my understanding of how it works. I do actually vaguely know someone who had a serious conviction overturned and that's why he didn't get any compensation. The new evidence was based on newer technology that wasn't available at the time so they said the conviction was based on the evidence presented. He's got nothing from it and did 7 years.

If she was acquitted she would get compensation.

I think most people knew the whole “foxy Knoxy kills woman in sex game gone wrong” thing was bollocks though. A lot of people genuinly believe Letby is a child killer.

Thats not to say I think she’s necessarily innocent, I genuinely am not sure either way.

Just remembered Amanda Knox who seems to be safe living as herself and even being papped and featuring on tv documentaries . 🤔

Have you watched the whole press conference? Because every baby who died seems to have been either very sick or had their medical care botched in some way.

No idea what motivation these 14 extremely experienced experts would have to say otherwise.

I don't think the babies did have any unexplained physical injuries. To be honest if they had done I expect the initial autopsy would have picked it up.

The whole process in this case was wrong. They didn't find physical injuries and go looking for a suspect. They found a suspect and went looking for injuries.

It is quite long but the press conference is worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/live/N0nmoGes3IU?si=GT9p03Iq7A6TXyoZ

I basically went on the same journey but now I have come back round to I do think she is guilty due to the circumstancial evidence. It’s not beyond reasonable doubt so I think she will be freed. But in the balance of probabilities Im veering back again towards guilty now.

Some of the babies were not the higher care needs babies. There was a full term baby who was only there because of the mother’s health; and others about to be sent home.

It’s also the paper towel for me. Why would someone go to the effort of fishing a paper towel out of a bin and store it.

And these sheets were trophies for her. She kept her first ever handover sheet in the special box.

I have also fallen down a bit of a rabbit hole with this the last couple of days.

To me it is interesting that people don't want to change their minds. Because I completely thought she was guilty at the beginning and I think that has led to me feeling duped now. For me that has made me want to look into it more but it isn't a comfortable feeling.

I read the initial press coverage and was totally convinced of her guilt (though interestingly some usually sensible friends who worked in health care were not). I thought it was strange that she had close friends from childhood who were prepared to defend her, because most serial killers don't have friends especially not close ones they have maintained for years. However that just made me think what an awful case it was, do you really ever know someone etc?

Then like others I read that a statistician had taken issue with the evidence. I realised that she hadn't been on duty for all the babies deaths just those that had been classed as suspicious and that it had been circular. They had identified those deaths as suspicious because she was there. But I thought well why did the deaths drop then when she was suspended, I am sure she is still guilty.

Then I had a chat with a friend who told me the unit had stopped looking after the really sick babies after Lucy was suspended. I thought then that the information about the case had been really misrepresented in the press at least if not the court and I said to my husband that even if she was guilty her conviction might not be safe.

Then I thought no more about it until the press conference the other day which I read a Guardian article about. I then watched the press conference and honestly couldn't believe what I was hearing. That there was no real evidence at all that the babies had been murdered and plenty that they had died as a result of natural causes and medical negligence.

Then I started reading about this odd procescution expert witness and how he had decided in ten minutes that it was murder and that his opinion overruled the autopsy and other investigations done up until that point.

I now think she is probably completely innocent.

Just because the medical experts say they cant prove her actions caused the deaths doesn’t mean she didnt attack or attempt to murder them.

A lot of the evidence from the press release was about how they weren’t being given the correct treatment from the off - making them potentially unstable, or not able to correct a decline as giving the wrong treatment.

So yes potentially some of these babies maybe would have declined anyway.

This doesn’t necessarily mean LL wasn’t attacking them. Some had physical traumas that were unexplained.

Interestingly she didnt have initials for all the babies she was tried for. And only a portion of the babies sheets were in her most special box. So perhaps some were natural.

I just dont get a good vibe off of it and I am not saying she is guilty. I dont know. But I dont think those who are saying she’s innocent without any doubt can be rational people either.