My son is scruffy and i don't care

Drawing on his hands and arms is a bit scratchy and involves the reward of pressure and something to see.

Stopping it for some can be preventing a coping mechanism that can otherwise manifest as cutting/self harm.

The fact that he's also got access to something sharp and has already cut clothing makes me wonder whether your not caring/thinking he's the least affected/doesn't need a diagnosis is potentially allowing him to develop a dangerous way of handling things.

Have you seen his bare legs or arms recently?

It would bother me too. Can you get him pens with ink that washes off skin and out of clothes more easily? I’ve just googled it and found some recommendations. At least he could then start the day looking clean (apart possibly from the fabricy trainers, but maybe they can go in the washing machine at weekends?)

Give him blu tack.

Consider poppits, or pen toppers, or retractable rubbers which you move up and down, or those clicky 4 colour biros. It's easier with girls, a hair bobble on the wrist is completely unremarkable and they are more likely to want "toys" in their pencil case. But blu tack has saved many school jumper sleeves here.

Literally any other consequence. Or just say, he doesn't get to play football on the way home from school if he doesn't scrub his shoes. If he ignores this, bigger consequence. No need to overcomplicate it.

"Show us you are responsible and deserve privileges, or those privileges are removed."

You wouldn't struggle to get a diagnosis at his age. Far easier to diagnose an older child. You may have a long wait. Could you do it privately rather then waiting for the school system to grind on.

The shoes are fabric so while DS / DH gets the mud off, they are sometimes stained until I can run them through the washing machine which needs to be at the weekend.
Why on earth can't DH or DS use a washing machine yet? Why does it have to be you?

Yes, he has had to keep his room tidy but with each age his responsibilities increase, so its tidying / cleaning / making bed / putting clothes away - whereas last year it was just tidying and clothes.
He's 11. Again, I was doing all that at 8yrs although dm helped with bed making I still had to strip and do pillowcases. I was ironing and cutting the lawn aged 9. By the time children get to senior school they need to know/do basic house chores, by 14 he should be able to cook at least two basic meals and put on the washer. How else is he going to survive as an adult? When do you think he should learn any of this? Teach him to survive and thrive, don't teach him he's too special to be responsible for anything and to find a naice girl like his mother to shack up with so he doesn't have to do anything.

Actions, responsibilities, consequences.

I guess it doesn't actually matter if he cares. If he didn't care about brushing his teeth or washing (which was my DS at 11), would you still insist upon them?

I think it's reasonable to have an expectation that he doesn't go to school in shoes that are caked in mud (and equally the compromise is that it's ok if they are a bit dirty) and that he needs to clean them to a reasonable standard. Or you would be open to an alternative solution e.g. he has a pair of trainers that are solely for football use that can get and stay as muddy as he wants.

My son still comes covered in mud and he's 14! It washes out but I would be pretty annoyed if he was intentionally damaging his uniform with scissors. I would be getting him to replace the uniform with pocket money or removing a privilege as a punishment.
The odd accident fair enough but doing it on purpose isn't on. Does he do it to non uniform clothes?

Oh dear I was that scruffy child. My parents had their own stuff going on when I was 11 and stated senior school. Nobody really bothered what I looked like or how many days I wore a school shirt, or if I brushed my hair.
I got bullied so much by the other kids, and when I see photos of myself then it makes me feel very sad because I just see a child nobody really bothered with.
Im with your husband on this

Getting clothes dirty and untidy as a result of an active day is one thing. Deliberately cutting holes in clothes is another. It's not appropriate to spoil or destroy clothing on purpose and I think 11 is plenty old enough not to do it, so I'm with your husband on that. I also think there's a balance between not being too uptight about normal wear and tear and wearing scruffy like a badge of honour. This does seem to be a bit of a conceit amongst people who are class/wealth conscious, the 'only the working class care about clean and tidy' brigade, who think their children looking 'feral' (as they love to say) is a MC signifier.

Who sends their children out in dirty and torn clothing ?

I have a “high functioning” ASD 18 year old, and I still have to say “make sure you put a clean top on” before we go out .. and I still stuck her washing in. She also has ADHD .. with particular issues around organisation - she’s getting much better, still a little behind her peers.

He has cut a slit into his trousers out of boredom.
He cut his jumper intentionally, don't know why.

I'd go through him like a ton of bricks whether I was his mother or father. This is disgusting and disrespectful behaviour.

Muddy shoes and clothes are not important - boys often get muddy. But he can clean his shoes himself.
Drawing on his hands and arms is very irritating and looks ridiculous. Tell him to doodle on scrap paper instead.
Deliberately cutting his clothes is totally out of the norm and completely unacceptable, ND / ADHD or not. If he needs counselling or help with MH, get it for him. If not, I'd tell him if he does it again I’ll use his pocket money, sell his possessions e.g. X-box, to buy new ones.

Kids get mucky, but clothing washes, there needs to be consequences for deliberately damaging his uniform. What else does he damage 'impulsively', he needs support to control these impulses. I work in criminal justice and over the years a kid if the offenders I worked with score highly in terms of impulsivity, he needs tools to manage himself, where is he getting that kind of support? Also why is he wearing fabric shoes to school? Leather or the vegan alternative is much easier to wipe clean. Something he can do when he gets in.

Well, I wouldn't care how he looked coming out of school but I sure as hell would care what he looked like going into school each morning

So for me that would be clean clothes, clean skin and clean and tidy hair. No stained clothes, no torn or cut clothes and no ink stained skin

It's down to you as his parents to manage that. Or leave it and risk judgement

Your bar is literally so low for him. Yes he has to shower now, yes he also needs to do homework daily, yes he has to make his bed" like its already too much for him? He's 11 and in secondary school!

I'd be pissed off too and your DH is fully right IMO because taking care of yourself and your appearance is important in life, especially for places like school - which is a the closest thing to a formal situation for kids. Get him to clean his bloody shoes, I would 100% not be touching them. Tell him to stop drawing on his clothes and ripping them on purpose!? Because he's bored? Sorry, is he a puppy? Would he do that to his weekend clothes!?

My DS has been cleaning his shoes since year 3, because he would intentionally come running out of school and despite warnings, would run all over the mud pit bank with his mate. So the natural consequence is cleaning up after himself.

If your DS is 11 and he cant take a cloth and spray and give his shoes a once over, because he's already so overwhelmed by making his bed, showering and doing some homework then I really don't know...