How the term 'poverty' has changed

No, a smartphone is an essential item. Yes, there are people out there that cope without one... but if you actually know them, they are relying on people around them that do have smartphones for their life admin.
My dad does not have a smartphone. He keeps being sent links from his GP that he can't access. So, my mum has to do his life admin for him.

@BettyBardMacDonald It is degrading if you had to constantly ask friends if you could use their phone or computer to do essential things. I can guarantee if you put a post on MN saying something like - my friend is poor, so she does not have a phone. But she keeps asking to use mine to update her Universal Credit journal, buy things, contact the council, and other admin. AIBU to think this is cheeky and she should just get her own phone?
Nearly everyone would say the friend was cheeky

"People like the person you’ve replied to would argue that people should just go to the library, or use someone else’s phone/computer, even though the former has limited opening hours, or may no longer be open at all, and the latter is just degrading."

What bollocks. There's nothing degrading about sharing resources. Talk about snobbery.

OP, for your sake I really hope your circumstances don’t change and you and your children, if you have any, don’t have to confront the reality you clearly feel has been consigned to the undeserving

Internet access is pretty essential. You might not get it through work (we’re not allowed to use our work computers for personal internet use) and you might not have eg a library. How do people apply for benefits or jobs, look for cheap energy prices etc without internet? Some places don’t have a bank branch they can access. You might be working long hours and these things might not be open when you’re not working. Secondary Schools expect internet access at home. So so much of life is online. You will probably tell me you can exist without the internet but it’s harder.

Did you mean this reply for someone else?

I also think what we consider now as normal has changed a lot- I remember in the 70s visiting my great aunt and uncle a lot - they had quite a decent house in a good area but still plugged irons etc into light fittings- weird or what - they also had an outside loo - thing was my uncle had a section manager job in a supermarket so not amazingly well paid, but my great aunt did zero work wise after getting married and they had no kids- she wasn't ill or anything - just did zero paid work - to me they seemed quite poor but not suprisingly if only one ever worked and not in a high earning job- no top ups then etc!

Times have changed

Yes. OP does sound a bit nostalgic. Maybe she should move to India or something.

Because UC has to be managed online, even the street homeless have smartphones now.

This recent report from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation might be a helpful read for those posters asking questions

www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2025-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk

They probably wouldn't even think it necessary for it to be a nice affluent family, seeing as they already constantly recommend broke families take in a random lodger into their child's personal space. Why not sell them to the dodgy man down the road? How dare anyone have the temerity to complain about their financial situation if they haven't tried that first!!

Most on MN think having kids should be only for the rich anyway. So yes I’m sure selling them to a nice affluent family would kill two birds with one stone in their view.

Yup no broke person has a spare room to rent out a lot of broke families all live in one small room together.
That aside what kind of advice is it to tell someone with kids to take a random stranger into their personal space?
That's exactly how kids get sexually abused.

Your average potential lodger willing to live in the corner of a broke families home is probably that down on their luck for a reason drugs, alcohol or just being a general scumbag. But sure people like op keep making these threads asking why broke people don't just take in lodgers 🙄 I'm sure the next big step will be asking why broke people don't just sell their kids because that's where this is going.

Am I missing something? Isn't this a good thing?

Not necessarily former addicts. Some start using drugs because they're sleeping outside not vice versa. I'm going mainly by what I've been told by people coming to a foodbank.

Yes how do we judge “working?” I’d say the current state of the UK economy suggests the model could certainly be improved, at least.

And not all versions of capitalism are the same. For example both the US and Sweden are capitalist countries. But the US is at the extreme end of the capitalist spectrum, being a very low tax, low public services/support, low regulation economy. Whereas Sweden has high taxes but also better and more widely available public services and heavier regulation of industry.

The Swedish model results in a higher quality of life for the general population, but the US model arguably has more advantages for enterprise, innovation, individual freedoms etc (at least that’s what its supporters might say).

There are plenty of tweaks you can make even within capitalism to significantly change things for the better.

Because they don't want to be tempted themselves because they're former addicts, isn't that right?
Or is it because of the behaviour?

GutsyShark realistically, no alternative to capitalism at this time. But given that creating poverty is a feature not a bug, we need to manage this to reduce the level of human misery, not pretend we all have equal agency or opportunity.

Some avoid the B &Bs even when its snowing, because of the other people there using drugs.

Are there really people sleeping rough without any of these problems being refused by the hostels? For what reason? I knew the street homeless people where I used to live and they all had problems.

People like the person you’ve replied to would argue that people should just go to the library, or use someone else’s phone/computer, even though the former has limited opening hours, or may no longer be open at all, and the latter is just degrading.

I agree. It was a genuine question, no other system has ever lasted (as far as I’m aware). I was not suggesting it’s perfect at all.

Not all though.

I think rough sleeping has more to do with mental illness and addictions. These can be consequences of poverty, of course.

Yes, there's absolute and relative poverty. Absolute poverty still exists in some countries. Relative poverty is shit too, not being able to take a proper part in the your own society. Some might say it's easier when everyone is poor than being the poor person surrounded by others who have things.