How the term 'poverty' has changed

Yes because competition over who is or has been more impoverished is so effective at eradicating it. Instead of, I don't know, questioning why any poverty exists at all in this day and age? In the same timeline as literal billionaires.

And by your own logic, for some people in the world having a two bed house, enough food for breakfast every day and a coal fire would be incredible wealth, so what right did your grandparents have to claim poverty?

These are still issues you're just looking at it wrong. Only had a coal fire... Coal was cheap (it's not now) and fire kick out a lot of heat. There's plenty of people in fuel poverty this year who have not been able to heat their homes at all due to inflated costs. Not all houses even have central heating and I've known a few in rentals using electric heaters. Condensation issues from being unable to hear their homes.

Overcrowding is still a huge issue too. People don't often come online and boast about it so you don't hear about it, but I grew up in a very poor area and it isn't uncommon for two families to be living together in a tiny 2 bed flat with multiple kids. Council waiting lists are longer than ever.

Lots of people in these situations work, some even work two jobs. People may have had less money back then but they also had less debt. We now work more hours for lower return, if you look at what wages could pay for 70 years ago Vs now particularly in things like education and buying property.

I see regular posts on here and other forums of people who can't access basic health care or even dentistry and are forced to live with dental pain and infections if they can't scrape together hundreds for a root canal. Thousands of they can't get an NHS dentist.

I go back to the city where I used to live and the poverty is everywhere. Dirty streets. Dirty people. It's grim. Nobody is happy. I see young people and I feel bad for their future there (or lack of). For most it will be a life of struggling that never ends. Even if they work hard, even if they are good people, even if they are talented or bright.

Things that were since considered good economy like making clothes are now very expensive. Repairs - fine. But buying the pattern to make a dress, the fabric, the machine to see it on and the X amount of hours to create the item means that it's financially a very poor investment. Especially with vinted, eBay, charity shops and even fast fashion and Primark making garments available for only a few pounds. The same is extended to things like baking. I baked a spiced apple toffee cake today, it cost a small fortune and I realised as put all the ingredients together why I rarely bake now. It's much more cost effective to buy something in from one of the bakeries or even supermarket bakery.

People are struggling just as much as they always have. There is much more pressure to hide it though. Social services would almost certainly become involved if a woman was sleeping in the same bed as two children one of which not even her own, particularly if this wasn't a temporary neasure. Rightfully so. We hopefully all want better for children, and them not to suffer like the generations before them and know feeling cold, being ashamed of their home or background, having access to more opportunities and better standards and safer living environments.

It's not really changed at all. In fact your romanticised picture of the past makes it sound like poor people used to deserve help but now they don't. Perhaps they aren't pulling up themselves by the bootstraps enough for your liking?

I was born in the 90's and much of what you described here is also my childhood experience.

I didn't have my first winter coat or weather appropriate shoes until my early 20's, when I was out working and managed to save up enough to buy them myself.

I often went hungry as a child and it's only now that I'm married and earning well, I can finally afford to heat my house and have hot water running from the tap without restrictions.

Sorry, but now those claiming poverty now wouldn't consider letting out a room, working all day and night, making clothes and baking just to survive.

I don’t agree with this generalisation at all. 1 in 3 children are in poverty. This means they have food insecurity- so skipping meals. This means missing school due to lack of means to get to school, or no money to replace a bit of uniform, or no money for personal hygiene. Teachers are buying with their own money toothbrushes, shampoo, & food for children.

You can’t bake, when you have no electric or gas to cook with- there are millions of families that have disconnected from the energy grid because they don’t have the money to top up the prepayment meters.

Sewing clothes is an expensive hobby these days.

There are no spare rooms to put lodgers in and it is benefit fraud to have a lodger when UC is paying your rent. Most households in poverty are overcrowded, they have 3-4 children in one bedroom with adult(s) sleeping in the open living/kitchen area.

Absolutely agree you can make better bread if you do it yourself, but it’s going to cost 70-80p to heat the oven for it, and then ingredients on top - it’s hardly the biggest economy in the face of rental / housing costs. This is the thing - no amount of baking bread and hand stitching clothes is going to get someone out of poverty with cost of housing and heating so high.

That's very true! ''Radio Rentals''
A TV was hundreds of pounds back when people earned very little.

www.radios-tv.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/img473.jpg

Yes when I hear the word “poverty” followed by stats 99 times out of 100 it’s talking about relative poverty

It has changed, but I think it's also to do with how poverty is defined.

The word 'poverty' is bandied about like some kind of buzz word these days, but often people are referring to relative poverty (i.e. earning a certain % less than average) rather than true poverty. Absolute poverty does exist in the UK, but not to the extent that the Guardian would have you believe.

Having travelled to a few less developed countries, I have seen what poverty looks like. Entire families with kids living on the side of a main road!

Absolutely true.
Children were sent to work at 9 at the end of the last century.
Zero benefits.
A 9 year old boy was sent to work in a brick factory, his mum wept as she wrapped up his sandwiches for lunch.

Desperate poverty. ''People of the abyss'' by Jack London describes it.
Awful industrial accidents where people were left seriously disabled and zero payouts and no ''pip''.

We don't know poverty like that now, thank goodness. {At least in the UK}

Absolutely! I’ve seen posts on MN over the years asking about taking a lodger in or having a random male family member visit and this point is always raised, as it should be.

This is also a valid point. When my DC were small I wouldn't have felt comfortable renting a room to a stranger. (If I were allowed). Now that they are older teens I think a woman would be fully justified in not wanting to move into a house with 2 young men in. And I wouldn't want a random man here who I would be alone with if DC go out.

The person who said it’s cheaper to buy bread than make it I disagree. It’s a false economy. Shop bought bread is mostly air but if you make it yourself you can get a nice thick loaf that’s filling

No you're not right.

Some people are still hungry and malnourished. Unable to sleep due to the cold. Some don't have a roof over their heads, living on the streets. Desperate.

Bugger all to do with gangsters.

I also don’t think “Well 100 years ago you would’ve been dead in a poor house” is in ANY way useful to those experiencing poverty. Doesn’t make them richer or happier or their belly fuller. It’s hatred a other way to stick the boot in

Also the moaning around “people wouldnt let out a room these days” - how many times did people let our rooms to creeps weirdos and people who’d prey on and abuse their children? Let’s not be dicks and say people in poverty should compromise safeguarding of children

Yes, absolutely on luxuries vs essentials.

At the same time public perception of what constitutes a luxury has not kept up with reality.

So you still get people claiming someone’s living in luxury because they have a smartphone, or they buy new clothes fairly often.

But in fact a smartphone is a necessity and has been for years. And if all you can afford is Primark or Shein clothes, replacing them often is also a necessity as they tend to fall apart.

See also Netflix or other subscription services; “wide-screen” TVs (that’s almost all TVs now!) etc.

The bench mark for poverty has changed so much over the last century. I'm a fan of novels/films/dramas set in the Victorian era, and I must admit I am shocked at the level of poverty that existed in those times. Like not having a proper coat to wear in bitterly cold weather,and having to make do with a knitted shawl. Or no decent shoes,the ones they had were falling apart. Having to survive on a few slices of bread and margarine a day. Living in freezing,cramped,tiny apartments,often with 3 or 4 people to one bed. Working 12 hour days as a matter of course,with only one day off a week, and no paid annual holiday. I took early retirement due to ill health and live on benefits so I'm hardly wealthy. But OMFG compared to the life so many Victorians had to endure,I feel positively rich. I just count my lucky stars I was born in 1963 and not 1863.

Because what happened in the past is no longer relevant. 100 years ago people died from bugs that we’d now spend maybe a day in bed for. The fact we would’ve died 100 years ago isn’t relevant, doesn’t have any bearing on what we do now and should be looked upon with a mere “Glad it’s better now”, nothing more

My late dad ( born 1928) used to say that poor children used to watch him eat an apple at playtime and ask him if they could have the core to eat.

I remember when TVs were so expensive you'd rent them. Today my huge TV costs less than a week's worth of groceries for my family of four.

Sorry, but now those claiming poverty now wouldn't consider letting out a room, working all day and night, making clothes and baking just to survive.

I'm not allowed to sub let a room.
I couldn't work 'day and night' due to health issues.
Making clothes isn't cheaper, assuming people even have the skills.
I bake quite often, but it's not actually cheap.

I think it's madness that I'm officially classed as living in poverty. But I am.

What have gangsters got to do with it?

The difference I see is nowadays the essentials are expensive and the so called luxuries in life are cheap.

this

Housing is the real issue nowadays. Agree that making your own clothes and bread nowadays is not cheaper and it would be an utterly futile task. Not having a mobile phone won't make any difference as to whether you can afford your rent.

Sorry, but now those claiming poverty now wouldn't consider letting out a room, working all day and night, making clothes and baking just to survive.

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