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Original poster

Telling people they're powerless over alcohol/substances is dangerous

88 replies

FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 16:18

Had a conversation with a friend recently (not an addict) where they got upset with me for saying that it's always a choice to use substances. I believe it is, while acknowledging the huge difficulty people face getting out of these habits.

Others are of the opinion that it isn't a choice and that it's not in the person's control. I think this view is completely disempowering, and possibly dangerous.

I speak from experience of poly-substance 'addiction' which I'm currently in. I make the choice to buy drugs and have a drink. It's easier than dealing with the underlying issues. Let's face it, it's the easy, familiar, comforting choice. It's very hard and humbling to admit that I just don't like being sober and facing reality.

Luckily I only hurt myself, however sometimes it's pretty bad and the shame that I feel afterwards is really justified (while also understanding that I'm human and allowing for a bit of self-compassion which I'm working on). If i was to accept that these actions were not my own responsibility, then I'd be even less likely to try and keep myself in check.

I'm starting to realise it's all on me, I can't make excuses because I know what I'm doing to myself and I do it anyway. I refuse to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have a lot of underlying trauma and mental health issues, a lot of character defects that have led me to this. Those things are not my fault but I made and continue to make shitty choices.

If I believed what AA told me, I'd believe I had an 'allergy' or that I'm just different to other people and I don't have power over it. I've friends who are terrified to miss a meeting because they've been told so many times that AA is what's keeping them sober. I think they WANT to be sober so they're abstaining and it's as simple as that, although of course a support network is always helpful.

AIBU to think that it's better to encourage self responsibility and accountability than helplessness?

OP posts:
Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:24

LadyWiddiothethird · 05/02/2025 17:18

@FlyingMasticatedParticles So you are just here to have a go at AA? Just because you disagree with it,the reality is you still want to be an addict.

I have been sober in AA for 22years,NOTHING else worked for me.I once stopped drinking for 3 years without AA,but then drank again.

Most people that run AA down and say they stopped drinking another way have short term sobriety,which is anything under 7 years,they will eventually drink again,that is a fact.

Instead of running other people’s choices down work on your own recovery,you sound as if you need to.Just work on yourself and let others do what suits them.

Not at all. Glad it worked for you. I know that AA proponents don't like it when you criticise AA so I was waiting for this.

It's not the only way, nor the most successful. Best of luck to you though. And yeah, I do need to work on my recovery. Not denying that!

OP posts:
Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:23

godmum56 · 05/02/2025 17:12

"I can stop if I want to" is a very common thing for an addict to say.

I mean, I haven't tried yet so I don't know if it's true, but I believe that I will recover.

OP posts:
Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:21

Glorybox2025 · 05/02/2025 17:11

Oddly I watched a YouTube video yesterday by a recovering addict and he mentioned this. He said he hated the step when he first heard it, but then he understood it. He said the only choice he has is whether to have the first drink/line/smoke. After that, he is powerless, because he is an addict. He can't 'just have one' or 'just drink socially'. That's where the powerlessness lies and also where the personal responsibility fits in.

This is where I have the issue, because I can and have just had one, or drank socially. I think this is just another excuse.

Frequently I make a choice on the spot to take it way too far and all bets are off. But it is still a choice. Maybe not after a certain amount however I've a ridiculously high tolerance so it takes a lot for me to be unaware of my own actions.

This is just my opinion, no offence intended.

OP posts:
LadyWiddiothethird · 05/02/2025 17:18

@FlyingMasticatedParticles So you are just here to have a go at AA? Just because you disagree with it,the reality is you still want to be an addict.

I have been sober in AA for 22years,NOTHING else worked for me.I once stopped drinking for 3 years without AA,but then drank again.

Most people that run AA down and say they stopped drinking another way have short term sobriety,which is anything under 7 years,they will eventually drink again,that is a fact.

Instead of running other people’s choices down work on your own recovery,you sound as if you need to.Just work on yourself and let others do what suits them.

Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:17

MissyB1 · 05/02/2025 17:09

I do absolutely believe in addiction, and addictions are a bastard to recover from, but I do also believe addicts can choose to engage in recovery. Some choose not to. My brother chose to go to rehab when he was ready.

I 100% believe I'll recover when I want to. It took me a long time to even recognise it was a problem. Trying to add more things to my life to give me a reason to want to recover. Managing to cut down a bit so that's a start. I hope your brother made a full recovery 😁

OP posts:
Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:14

IndiraCharcoal · 05/02/2025 17:09

It's not necessarily a helpful phrase for everyone- lots of people don't get on with AA so feel free to ignore it if it's not for you- but if you think the message they are trying to convey is "it's not your fault and there's nothing you can do" then that is your misunderstanding. It is the opposite- that the person can take control of their life by recognising their addiction.

I suspect a lot of people find "I can but choose not to" a more comforting thought than "I can't", but the outcome is the same. Again, maybe not you.

Show quote history

Fair enough, I take your point on board. I do enjoy aspects of it, and I'll still go because it's a decent enough way to spend my evening. However there's just a lot that seems off to me and I've noticed that they all start to speak in slogans after a while which is a bit odd 😬 but mostly the people are nice.

OP posts:
godmum56 · 05/02/2025 17:12

"I can stop if I want to" is a very common thing for an addict to say.

Glorybox2025 · 05/02/2025 17:11

Oddly I watched a YouTube video yesterday by a recovering addict and he mentioned this. He said he hated the step when he first heard it, but then he understood it. He said the only choice he has is whether to have the first drink/line/smoke. After that, he is powerless, because he is an addict. He can't 'just have one' or 'just drink socially'. That's where the powerlessness lies and also where the personal responsibility fits in.

Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:10

ThatsNotMyTeen · 05/02/2025 16:56

I agree. that’s why I never even considered AA when I got sober. They do amazing things and have saved so many lives, but their way is not the only way. If it was, I reckon I’d still be drinking.

Do you mind me asking if you used any other resources? I'm really enjoying SMART - it's helpful for all kinds of self-destructive behaviours and thought patterns.

OP posts:
MissyB1 · 05/02/2025 17:09

I do absolutely believe in addiction, and addictions are a bastard to recover from, but I do also believe addicts can choose to engage in recovery. Some choose not to. My brother chose to go to rehab when he was ready.

IndiraCharcoal · 05/02/2025 17:09

FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 16:59

But I can stop - if I want to. I just don't normally because it's easier to get off my tits than face life.

I feel like any criticism of A is met with "you've just not accepted your problem" or "you're not a real alcoholic". Not directed at you btw, there's just a lot of flaws in their theory. I am an alcoholic and I can definitely stop after one. I just choose not to.

Show quote history

It's not necessarily a helpful phrase for everyone- lots of people don't get on with AA so feel free to ignore it if it's not for you- but if you think the message they are trying to convey is "it's not your fault and there's nothing you can do" then that is your misunderstanding. It is the opposite- that the person can take control of their life by recognising their addiction.

I suspect a lot of people find "I can but choose not to" a more comforting thought than "I can't", but the outcome is the same. Again, maybe not you.

Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:08

southpawsofthenorth · 05/02/2025 17:05

Not everyone in your position is happy with the powerless/higher power thing. Like I said it’s not for everyone. For some people it works though.

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No, I hear you. I'm glad it works for some people. I do think it can harm some as well, especially those who are very vulnerable.

OP posts:
southpawsofthenorth · 05/02/2025 17:05

FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:01

No I definitely fit a lot of those. I still think it's my choice. And I'm not powerless.

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Not everyone in your position is happy with the powerless/higher power thing. Like I said it’s not for everyone. For some people it works though.

Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:03

AgnesX · 05/02/2025 16:59

The number of people who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions is mind boggling.

I feel so old sometimes as some of my younger colleagues look at me as if I've grown two heads for even suggesting such a thing.

I've messed up a lot of things because of my substance abuse. Being able to see that has actually made me feel a lot better than I did when I was believing people who told me it wasn't my fault.

OP posts:
Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 17:01

southpawsofthenorth · 05/02/2025 16:59

Usual signs of alcohol dependence include

  • not being able to function without alcohol - for example, not being able to do your job or carry out daily tasks
  • drinking has become an important, or the most important, thing in life
  • continuing to drink despite negative consequences for you or your loved ones
  • finding it difficult to control the amount or the times when you drink
  • finding it difficult to stop drinking when you want to
  • not always being able to plan with certainty how much you are going to drink on an occasion
  • drinking increasing amounts of alcohol
  • craving alcohol or having withdrawal symptoms
  • not seeming to be drunk after drinking large amounts

But if your not physically dependent you probably aren’t at this level of dependence.

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No I definitely fit a lot of those. I still think it's my choice. And I'm not powerless.

OP posts:
Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 16:59

IndiraCharcoal · 05/02/2025 16:56

I think you've misunderstood the message. It's not that you don't have the power to choose, but that (as an addict) if you choose to drink you then won't have the power to stop. You therefore need to take responsibility for not having the first drink.

It's part of the creeping trend towards infantilising everyone.

FFS. It's advice given to recovering alcoholics to help them manage their addiction and it has been the same for nearly a century. What's your suggested alternative- "go on, just have one"?

But I can stop - if I want to. I just don't normally because it's easier to get off my tits than face life.

I feel like any criticism of A is met with "you've just not accepted your problem" or "you're not a real alcoholic". Not directed at you btw, there's just a lot of flaws in their theory. I am an alcoholic and I can definitely stop after one. I just choose not to.

OP posts:
AgnesX · 05/02/2025 16:59

The number of people who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions is mind boggling.

I feel so old sometimes as some of my younger colleagues look at me as if I've grown two heads for even suggesting such a thing.

southpawsofthenorth · 05/02/2025 16:59

FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 16:48

I'm addicted. Whatever that means. According to popular understanding. It's still in my control to abuse substances? Do you mean physical dependency?

Show quote history

Usual signs of alcohol dependence include

  • not being able to function without alcohol - for example, not being able to do your job or carry out daily tasks
  • drinking has become an important, or the most important, thing in life
  • continuing to drink despite negative consequences for you or your loved ones
  • finding it difficult to control the amount or the times when you drink
  • finding it difficult to stop drinking when you want to
  • not always being able to plan with certainty how much you are going to drink on an occasion
  • drinking increasing amounts of alcohol
  • craving alcohol or having withdrawal symptoms
  • not seeming to be drunk after drinking large amounts

But if your not physically dependent you probably aren’t at this level of dependence.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 05/02/2025 16:56

I agree. that’s why I never even considered AA when I got sober. They do amazing things and have saved so many lives, but their way is not the only way. If it was, I reckon I’d still be drinking.

IndiraCharcoal · 05/02/2025 16:56

I think you've misunderstood the message. It's not that you don't have the power to choose, but that (as an addict) if you choose to drink you then won't have the power to stop. You therefore need to take responsibility for not having the first drink.

It's part of the creeping trend towards infantilising everyone.

FFS. It's advice given to recovering alcoholics to help them manage their addiction and it has been the same for nearly a century. What's your suggested alternative- "go on, just have one"?

Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 16:55

Pinckk · 05/02/2025 16:53

Quite. Same as the concept obesity is a “disease” and can’t be helped 😳 (despite well over half the population being overweight. No personal responsibility to be taken for one’s own weight and it’s all trauma related even when it isn’t!)

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As a fat bastard I agree with this too 😆

OP posts:
Pinckk · 05/02/2025 16:53

CoffeeCantata · 05/02/2025 16:23

It's part of the creeping trend towards infantilising everyone.

Don't feel bad about anything - you can't help it, and nothing is your fault.

Quite. Same as the concept obesity is a “disease” and can’t be helped 😳 (despite well over half the population being overweight. No personal responsibility to be taken for one’s own weight and it’s all trauma related even when it isn’t!)

Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 16:52

Sassybooklover · 05/02/2025 16:50

It is a choice. I understand that an addiction makes the draw to the substance much harder to resist. However, it's still a choice to resist or not. We have an addict in our extended family - drugs/alcohol. He's the victim. He's been given chance after chance. Stints in rehabs. Family have bent over backwards to offer help/support. He's had professional help too. He's still the victim, can't help it, and it's a constant stream of 'poor me'. Addicts are selfish. The damage it does to the immediate family, close friends etc is horrendous - yet he's still blameless and the victim. Sadly, after yet another stint in rehab, that will work for a time, I don't hold much hope out, that he will ever recover or be drug/alcohol free.

I agree with you. I want what I want when I want it. When I'm in that mindset I'm really selfish. I'm glad I've got no partner or kids because right now I'd be damaging them

OP posts:
Sassybooklover · 05/02/2025 16:50

It is a choice. I understand that an addiction makes the draw to the substance much harder to resist. However, it's still a choice to resist or not. We have an addict in our extended family - drugs/alcohol. He's the victim. He's been given chance after chance. Stints in rehabs. Family have bent over backwards to offer help/support. He's had professional help too. He's still the victim, can't help it, and it's a constant stream of 'poor me'. Addicts are selfish. The damage it does to the immediate family, close friends etc is horrendous - yet he's still blameless and the victim. Sadly, after yet another stint in rehab, that will work for a time, I don't hold much hope out, that he will ever recover or be drug/alcohol free.

Original poster
FlyingMasticatedParticles · 05/02/2025 16:49

BIossomtoes · 05/02/2025 16:48

There's no such thing as recovery, you're only ever recovering

Which is true. It fits with one day at a time.

But AA is only one school of thought and it's not fact? You don't think recovery is possible?

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