A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

YANBU :)

Trans women, most of whom I’m sure are not predatory & voyeuristic, should not be allowed in women only spaces such as changing rooms & communal showers - yet again, it’s an example of men getting the upper hand and it makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. What is worse is that we are written off as whining TERFS

Fuck off 🙌

No big deal imo, but I’m guessing I may be in a minority.
Obviously the solution is to have individual changing cubicles, but with the current state of the NHS, what are the realistic options?

Just to be clear, the BBC are reporting on 2 days of cross-examination of the nurse Sandie Peggie in which counsel on behalf of the NHS made all kinds of claims about bad things Peggie had done and what a bad person Peggie is.

Today, counsel for the NHS tried to paint Peggie as homophobic. In response Peggie said her daughter was gay and her daughter's girlfriend was welcome in spending time at Peggie's house and everyone was cool with that. Counsel for the NHS abandoned that line of attack very quickly indeed.

Indeed but as we know for TW, it’s not the space itself it’s the women in the space

if it says women’s changing on the door but no women ever use it, TW wouldn’t use it either

Until we can magic up the money for individual rooms or what ever the suggestion is, the rather practical general changing for each sex seems to work pretty well.

Given that our Trans brothers and sisters are such a tiny minority, we don't need to upend the whole system for them.

We could organize a Trans changing room.

And to be fair, leaving the area when a clearly predatory male is present seems entirely fair enough. Why couldn't she leave areas on her own volition?

It was noted above. Refusing to work with them, or work for them. Leaving the area when they came near. This was all part of an allegation of bullying that was included with the refusal to use the changing room, and the language that was used when they were in the room together.

This is misleading. This is the case being presented by the defence in the Employment Tribunal, who would say that, these are not established facts.

This is insane.That poor nurse. Having to talk about her heavy periods & sexual assault in the courtroom. Disgusting.Hopefully this case will alert more people. I can't imagine the majority of the UK supports this behaviour.

i do hope she doesn't lose her pension

Still waiting for this 'bullying behaviour' (by the nurse) to be explained.

It was noted above. Refusing to work with them, or work for them. Leaving the area when they came near. This was all part of an allegation of bullying that was included with the refusal to use the changing room, and the language that was used when they were in the room together.

If women don't want to strip to their underwear in front of men? What then?

And as we all know, the correct response for a man to give when he feels like a woman is being mean to him is to get naked in front of her and try to intimidate her into getting naked in front of him. If that doesn't work he should try to get her fired from her job.

It's policy don't you know.

the question is should females be forced to undress in front of males. Yes or no?

No.

In fact, nobody should be forced to undress in front of anybody. We should be moving away from open locker rooms not matter whether they are mixed or single sex.

Surely in a changing room for operating theatres no one is ever naked. Underwear obviously, but no worse than when you’re at a beach. Or am I missing something?
Certainly when I’ve accessed theatres, it’s removed all clothes except underwear, then put on theatre greens.
But maybe it’s different in Scotland!!

So nothing that could genuinely be called bullying occurred.

What a surprise 🫠

Is that bullying or stating a gender critical view which I understood was also a protected characteristic as per recent case law.

So not bullying then. Quelle surprise.

You're stating things you can't explain nor define, if anyone should be taking a seat it's you.

I did define it, as it would pertain to me. I can't define what something means to someone else. You seem not to want to acknowledge that, but as I said, that's your only go to, isn't it.

So should anyone else who feels the need to defend an abusive, boundary trashing arsehole of a man. Which is what you're doing. Sorry - 'presenting an alternative view'.

Where did I defend Dr Upton? Which of the several times I said I support single sex spaces, led you to believe I think he should have been in there?

Or are you too busy throwing abbreviations at me to actually take a step back and comprehend what I am saying?

Did you read it? Becauseafter you posted the BBC link you posted 'The correct procedure would have been for her to talk to a manager in that situation.'

So you hadn't read it yourself, or you're pretending not to know basic facts. Neither looks great.

If I recall correctly, the bullying behaviour was supposedly established in an investigation by the NHS board due to things like:
the nurse, Sandie Peggie saying to Dr Upton that he is a man;
Peggie saying to Upton about the Isla Bryson case as an example of a male person being in a female-only space such as a prison is undesirable; and
Peggie asking Upton about his chromosomes, something which Peggie denies she did.

Any man who forces himself into a female space, knowing that most of the women in there would be uncomfortable, would have a very hard time making me believe that they are, in fact, the victim of bullying.

What bullying?

Feels like something out of a dystopian novel not our actual country. Has someone already mentioned petition on Change.org?

Source? Since earlier you apparently didn't know basic things about the case like the fact the nurse had indeed complained to management?

I was aware of that, it was in the BBC piece I linked to. As is the information about bullying, it is also mentioned in several other sources. Did you not read the piece when you were checking my work?