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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think criticisms of the new Ofsted ratings are self-serving?

133 replies

SmokeRingsOfMyMind · 03/02/2025 11:55

Obviously the suicide of Ruth Perry was very sad and distressing. But the teaching unions appear to be using that tragedy as a way to avoid proper scrutiny of school performance by Ofsted. The new, more detailed system proposed looks perfectly sensible to me. I'm sure Ofsted could improve inspection quality, but a lot of the commentary about how stressful it is seems nonsensical. All professionals need to be able to cope with external verification of performance from time to time, don't they?

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 03/02/2025 22:32

Cookiesandcandies · 03/02/2025 20:56

Auditors.

Schools get audited. And hygiene inspections. And JCQ inspections without notice. And section 48/SIAMS inspections if they're a faith school. And the LA can arrive for a safeguarding inspection without notice.

noblegiraffe · 03/02/2025 22:26

I was also very uncomfortable with how the tragic death of Ruth Perry was used in discussions about Ofsted's future. It felt very opportunistic to me.

The most prominent person who fought hard to have these discussions was Ruth Perry's sister, Julia Waters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67660350

Julia Waters

Ruth Perry's sister: Ofsted inquest response 'woefully inadequate'

Ruth Perry's sister says Ofsted apologised "for the distress rather than causing my sister's death".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67660350

5475878237NC · 03/02/2025 22:22

hydriotaphia · 03/02/2025 13:58

Yes, I entirely agree. I think the grid system seems very sensible and does allow for more nuance, while also being very easy to see at a glance. I am quite impressed with it actually.

I was also very uncomfortable with how the tragic death of Ruth Perry was used in discussions about Ofsted's future. It felt very opportunistic to me.

I do think that external school assessments are an essential part of the education system.

I completely agree with this post. As a parent I want to see the same level of scrutiny as for instance CQC. I'm not saying external inspections can't be improved, but I want to know exactly how a school is being led, what this means for performance and the happiness and care of pupils and staff.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 03/02/2025 22:20

A quick Google tells me that Finland (often held up as an example for its education system) has... no inspection system.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 03/02/2025 22:19

MeanWeedratStew · 03/02/2025 20:58

I’m a teacher here in Australia. The last audit I went through here was actually quite positive. Our leadership team shared the inspectorate’s recommendations with us, which included praise for what we were doing well and guidance as to the improvements they’d like to see on their next visit. Staff meetings were then spent collaborating on an action plan with achievable goals and everyone seemed to feel positive, even excited, about it.

I also went through two Ofsted inspections when I taught in the UK. They were demoralising and dehumanising - just a team of professional bullies descending on the school to swing their power around. I was appalled that children’s education was used as an arena to indulge these sorts of power displays.

If you are a parent who cares about their child’s education, then which do you prefer: a competent inspectorate that works with the school to be the best it can be, or Billy Big Balls inspectors sweeping in with the threat of Unsatisfactory and the power to do as they please?

There you go. Proof that it doesn't have to be like that, and that other countries do not necessarily seem to need to operate like that. And is our school system better as a result of this biased, dehumanising, and inaccurate way of inspecting? Is it?

noblegiraffe · 03/02/2025 22:17

SocksShmocks · 03/02/2025 22:12

This bothers me too. Ruth Perry’s suicide was a tragedy and I feel desperately sad for her family and loved ones. But keeping children safe is the absolute basic priority ahead of everything else and if a school can’t show they’re doing that then the maths teaching etc hardly matters.

Also my understanding of the Samaritans advice on reporting of suicide isn’t to suggest that one cause led to someone taking their own life.

No one denies that safeguarding is important, but the system that contributed to Ruth Perry committing suicide was utterly and unnecessarily cruel and changes have been made in response.

There was an inquiry which concluded that the Ofsted inspection contributed to her suicide. It's a matter of public record, and important to acknowledge for prevention of future deaths.

SocksShmocks · 03/02/2025 22:12

Sassku · 03/02/2025 17:34

What’s always concerned me about the reaction to the Ruth Perry tragedy is that her school was given inadequate based on safeguarding.

Surely even cynics to OFSTED should recognise that this is one area schools absolutely must get right?

This bothers me too. Ruth Perry’s suicide was a tragedy and I feel desperately sad for her family and loved ones. But keeping children safe is the absolute basic priority ahead of everything else and if a school can’t show they’re doing that then the maths teaching etc hardly matters.

Also my understanding of the Samaritans advice on reporting of suicide isn’t to suggest that one cause led to someone taking their own life.

Bushmillsbabe · 03/02/2025 22:10

TheYearOfSmallThings · 03/02/2025 15:31

What strikes me, knowing two Ofsted inspectors, is that the inspections are not impartial. The two I know are both ex teachers but have completely different views and preferences on education. One believes small primary schools cannot possibly provide a good range of experiences for children, and the other has a strong dislike of academies. I know they bring these beliefs to their work, and I have no doubt it influences their assessments.

As for the inspection on my son's school last year I agreed with their assesment that the school is good rather than outstanding, but they were totally unable to articulate why it is not outstanding or what needs to be changed, which would have been useful.

Basically I don't think they are worth much unless a school is really failing and this needs to be clearly stated.

Completly agree with you, inspectors bring bias.
I am a governor at a federated infants and juniors, who had ofsteds within a few weeks of each other. The juniors sailed through with an outstanding when we were more uncertain, it was a requires improvement and best hope was felt to be a 'good'. The infants which was a good and we felt very confident that it would be marked outstanding but came out as a 'good', the inspector seemed to take objection with how confident the head was with the schools provision and implied she should be more humble. With a child in both I would say the infants is definitely better and deserved an outstanding.

lilytuckerpritchet · 03/02/2025 21:54

TangerineClementine · 03/02/2025 11:59

What other professionals have anything similar to Ofsted, OP? Internal appraisals, yes absolutely. But an external body who swoops in for two days, delivers their judgement and then publishes it for the world to see? I can't readily think of another profession with a similar system?

Social services

derxa · 03/02/2025 21:49

I’m a farmer and even we have annual inspections. The inspectors come and check our paperwork and animals. If anything was terribly wrong we would be stopped from looking after animals and that would be quite right. However OFSTED aren’t like that. The judgements are often made before the inspectors leave their office. It’s all based on SATs and exam results.

derxa · 03/02/2025 21:42

Thank God I never have to be inspected ever again. Fuck all these people who have driven poor teachers to insanity.

noblegiraffe · 03/02/2025 21:37

Babyboomtastic · 03/02/2025 21:33

Every suicide is a tragedy.

That doesn't mean that schools shouldn't have a robust inspection regime like most other public services do.

It may be that the regime should be looked at to ensure it isn't unduly punitive, but the ability to handle the stress of heading an organisation under inspection is part of leadership. There should be support and training given to how best to manage it, but ultimately, it's part of the job.

You don't know what you're talking about here. The inspection system was the problem, not Ruth Perry's ability to handle stress. There were several factors that formed part of the inspection system that contributed towards her suicide that have changed in response.

CeceliaImrie · 03/02/2025 21:35

They are necessary despite clearly having an sort of unspoken underwritten consensus that they 'can be flawed / inaccurate..'

Newrumpus · 03/02/2025 21:34

Orangeandgold · 03/02/2025 21:29

But I thought schools were told how to improve.

The secondary school my DD is in knew what they needed to do to improve their OFSTED ratings and are working towards that. Infact for a state school, they have made major improvements over the past 5 years.

I think that it’s important for parents to have everything they need to know about a school - the only way to publish this information is to make it public. I usually find only those that are interested will look it up anyway.

Also it’s public service. Surely we are entitled to see public information about schools as a tax payer. The same way I can access information about public hospitals which helps me to make a decision about my health care.

It’s not the sharing of information that is the problem; it is the quality of the information that is shared.

Babyboomtastic · 03/02/2025 21:33

noblegiraffe · 03/02/2025 21:12

Should we be putting an entirely preventable suicide of a headteacher caused by the school inspection system 'into perspective'?

People really don't know what they're talking about.

Every suicide is a tragedy.

That doesn't mean that schools shouldn't have a robust inspection regime like most other public services do.

It may be that the regime should be looked at to ensure it isn't unduly punitive, but the ability to handle the stress of heading an organisation under inspection is part of leadership. There should be support and training given to how best to manage it, but ultimately, it's part of the job.

Orangeandgold · 03/02/2025 21:29

But I thought schools were told how to improve.

The secondary school my DD is in knew what they needed to do to improve their OFSTED ratings and are working towards that. Infact for a state school, they have made major improvements over the past 5 years.

I think that it’s important for parents to have everything they need to know about a school - the only way to publish this information is to make it public. I usually find only those that are interested will look it up anyway.

Also it’s public service. Surely we are entitled to see public information about schools as a tax payer. The same way I can access information about public hospitals which helps me to make a decision about my health care.

noblegiraffe · 03/02/2025 21:12

Babyboomtastic · 03/02/2025 21:08

30,000 teachers lessons is sad, but let's out it into perspective.

In state schools 8.8% of teachers leave annually.

13% of prison officers leave annually. Inspected.
11% of nurses. Inspected.
17% social workers. Inspected.

I'm happy for schools not to be in competition when there is nothing to choose between them. When they have vastly different ethos, standards, outcomes (even whilst being in the same area), then absolutely I want to know. Just the same as there's no way I'd put a relative in a care home without reading the CQC report.

Should we be putting an entirely preventable suicide of a headteacher caused by the school inspection system 'into perspective'?

People really don't know what they're talking about.

Mischance · 03/02/2025 21:12

The crux of this inspection issue is that it is simply a judgement when what is really needed is an assessment coupled with support and funding to improve those areas where a school is struggling.

I guess we can all dream .... but, hang on a minute ..... that is what we had before the OfSted system was introduced. LA funded inspectors who developed a relationship with each school and had access to funds from an LA education department (yes these used to thrive!) to provide support. But hey ... let's just judge then bugger off .....

Bringmeahigherlove · 03/02/2025 21:11

Ofsted is only part of the problem. The whole thing needs overhauled including league tables and funding. They were all part of the late 1980s initiative to improve state schools and arguably worked. They are now outdated and place all accountability on the school and teachers instead of parents and students.

Babyboomtastic · 03/02/2025 21:08

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 03/02/2025 20:23

I don't see why teaching should be treated any differently, or more leniently. Like for any other area of management, if the oversight part is causing stress that's having an effect on your mental health, then perhaps it's not for you. I can't imagine a governor of a prison saying they shouldn't be inspected because they find it too stressful.

Yes, there may be a tricky child which throws a curve ball.

It's got nothing to do with a 'tricky' child throwing a curve ball. Tell me you know nothing about schools without telling me you know nothing about schools...

The aim of inspections should be to help and improve schools. Otherwise what is the point of them? 30,000 people quit teaching last year. Do you think that saying 'Suck it up or recognise that maybe it's not for you' is going to cut it? It's not about being lenient. It's about seriously considering the purpose of the inspections and the effect they actually have on schools.

Putting schools in competition with each other is not healthy either. Imo schools should go back into local authority control, with local teams working in close partnership with their local school and supporting them to make improvements.

30,000 teachers lessons is sad, but let's out it into perspective.

In state schools 8.8% of teachers leave annually.

13% of prison officers leave annually. Inspected.
11% of nurses. Inspected.
17% social workers. Inspected.

I'm happy for schools not to be in competition when there is nothing to choose between them. When they have vastly different ethos, standards, outcomes (even whilst being in the same area), then absolutely I want to know. Just the same as there's no way I'd put a relative in a care home without reading the CQC report.

Shubbypubby · 03/02/2025 21:01

Prisons get inspected by Ofsted and usually get absolutely slated. They judged on the same level as sixth form and further education colleges. It's diabolical. It's considered a decent result if they scrape requires improvement.

MeanWeedratStew · 03/02/2025 20:58

I’m a teacher here in Australia. The last audit I went through here was actually quite positive. Our leadership team shared the inspectorate’s recommendations with us, which included praise for what we were doing well and guidance as to the improvements they’d like to see on their next visit. Staff meetings were then spent collaborating on an action plan with achievable goals and everyone seemed to feel positive, even excited, about it.

I also went through two Ofsted inspections when I taught in the UK. They were demoralising and dehumanising - just a team of professional bullies descending on the school to swing their power around. I was appalled that children’s education was used as an arena to indulge these sorts of power displays.

If you are a parent who cares about their child’s education, then which do you prefer: a competent inspectorate that works with the school to be the best it can be, or Billy Big Balls inspectors sweeping in with the threat of Unsatisfactory and the power to do as they please?

Cookiesandcandies · 03/02/2025 20:56

TangerineClementine · 03/02/2025 11:59

What other professionals have anything similar to Ofsted, OP? Internal appraisals, yes absolutely. But an external body who swoops in for two days, delivers their judgement and then publishes it for the world to see? I can't readily think of another profession with a similar system?

Auditors.

Sassku · 03/02/2025 20:56

At any rate, nothing has changed and I’m surprised people thought it would. It looks like exemplary is the new outstanding!