Waiting for the right guy equals no baby

Everything that I've seen written on the subject demonstrates better outcomes on every single metric for children living in a two parent household. Obviously that won't be universally true for everyone and only harm can come from living in a home with abuse - but the observation stands at a population level. It's certainly not true to say that fathers are universally irrelevant to the lives of children, this is demonstrably not true.

Again, where is the thoughts towards the children?

I have to say I hate how so many conversations regarding bay making these days never ever seem to centre the child.

Is anyone considering the child in all this?

Anyone?

It's incredibly selfish to have children with someone you know will be a shit father.

Women shouldn't settle or have low standards just because they want a baby.

Most men end up shit dads anyway. They’ve proven themselves unnecessary. Women should just seek a donor (not anonymous, children should have the right to know their background) and be single mums if they can’t find anyone decent, they and their children will be better off.

Or lower taxes for not having children because we are massively overpopulated.

That's why I said 'potentially'

Um...what? If you have a baby with any guy you can get to knock you up, then you're likely to face at least 18 years of misery trying to co-parent with an idiot. You'll inevitably end up single and struggling whilst the guy involved swans off the live his best life.

Then you'll come onto Mumsnet 8 years later talking about how your mal-adapted eldest child is (not) coping with your new partner and pregnancy and be roundly torn to shreds and accused of being an awful human being and having a "mangled" family.

Write MPs and Councillors to support and pass policies that encourage procreating for families who stay together and take care of their children. Eg lower taxes for working families with children, lower taxes or low council tax if living i the same borough as a parent over 70yrs old. Cheaper child care for working parents etc.
Instead of for example giving visas to a family of 6 for one care role. The state has to now pay for the education of those children, their healthcare etc and in 3yrs or so after they get their ILR they can go on benefits if not earning enough.

There's no guarantees for anything.....

This - it’s so arrogant to assume a child born this way won’t feel the absence of a father - it’s not even the same as, say, a child whose father died before they were born as in that case they would still have pictures and their mother’s memories.

A good friend of mine once said to me that it's often not recognised that women can be desparate for children and to be childless because they just haven't met anyone. She was 38 and had several long term past relationships. Happily at 39 she met the right one and had 3 babies very quickly.

How long do you wait though? It would be incredibly hard to become a lone parent by choice.

@Midlifecrisisxamillion this x 1000. You can't deny genetics, there are hundreds of twin studies which show the pull of genetics. It's much more than just upbringing.

And potentially leave a child always messed up because they yearn to know a father who was never there. It's purely doing it for the adult's needs.

@strawberrysea and you know that do you? What about all the women out there who marry 'good ones' who end up cheating, or leaving to be single again, or who's wives decide that the spark has gone, or who don't want to be the person who does everything? Do you resent paying for those women too?

That's great but it doesn't always end up that way. Many people have children with people they know will make absolutely horrific parents but they do it anyway. Your situation is very different from that.

or just find a quality sperm donor and go it alone ..... which so many women (married and separated) are doing anyway.

There are already far too many women in this country that choose to have children with men knowing all the while they will be shit fathers. As the taxpayer I end up paying the cost of this.

My friends daughter is pregnant and has decided to go it alone.
She close to 40 and has chose to go for donor sperm .
I admire her for that.

Some of this thread is quite offensive. I had my first child with someone who turned out to be useless. He has not had any involvement for a long time now.

I work and we have never been in poverty. Yes, the circumstances were not ideal but my daughter is now in her 20s,very well rounded, very loved and she has no long lasting trauma would you believe!

The only point worth noting is that the pregnancy was unplanned. It wasn't a case of 'I'm not prepared to wait for the right man,I want a baby.'

But if we went by the 'I'd rather have no baby than one with a terrible or absent father', my girl wouldn't be here. She's wonderful, she's intelligent, she's had a very happy childhood full of holidays and memories. It must be amazing to get everything right, all of the time. Life does not always turn out as you planned.

But I wouldn't change a thing.

We're so far away from that being any kind of issue. We are massively overpopulated.

She might well be an amazing mum but that doesn’t mean she can cancel out the effects of a shitty father.

I don't disagree that the world is overpopulated and that this is a problem. However, if birth rates fall significantly below replacement level then some populations will collapse. This is potentially very problematic.

That doesn't mean the child isn't massively impacted by a useless second parent. The child could absolutely be fine with one great parent but equally they could be utterly traumatised or end up with lots of challenges due to the other parent being crap. If that happens unexpectedly then there's not much you can do but support but to voluntarily get into that knowing it's just to have a baby is purely thinking about it for yourself and not a child and to be honest anyone who does that isn't a great parent. A child comes first and that starts from the planning stage.

We have to accept women having babies in less than ideal situations

Who's this 'we'?