Recent study of children joining reception class

@nespresso we moved hundreds of miles away from our families when our first DC was weeks old. That was early 70s. I’ve no siblings, never had much to do with babies, but knew that children need to be spoken to, played with, bathed and fed. They needed to learn to use cutlery too, anyone remember the ‘spoon and pusher’ sets? I visited the local baby clinic, and that was as much input as I got. I muddled along too, and it all turned out ok I think.

We were poor, I’d no washing machine, but had to either hand wash or use the laundrette. As has been said earlier, terry nappies were a great impetus to toilet train!

I know many local families (none travel far, we all live and work within London - max 30 mins) who do the full day. 5/6 families in my NCT class actually. But of course you think I’m lying bizarrely.

@OneAmberFinch absolutely. My mum didn’t have any local family, but she found a lovely old lady down the road (who was probably actually only in her 50s) who worked as my nanny (and was loved like family) but she paid her a pittance. Some days all she paid her was her bus fare and a sandwich! As we all know now, that would be impossible. Her other neighbour would lean over the fence and watch us in the garden if needed.

Labour laws / DBS checks, paying pension/ NI etc. Everyone is more insular. For those that have family they will never understand but the lack of help is exhausting. Mine do watch too much tv on a weekend because I’m shattered.

Agree with this. It doesn't show the exact questions asked but I've read the Kindred survey report and it doesn't mention the word 'nappies' anywhere in it. It's all teacher and parent perceptions, so there doesn't seem to be any one agreed definition of 'toilet trained'.

I have DC2 currently in reception - he was toileting perfectly fine at home/nursery and has never worn nappies to school, but he had a toileting regression when he started school and quite a lot of accidents there in the first term. As a parent I would have answered the survey that he was toilet trained but the TA in his class might have disagreed with me a few months ago.

10 isn’t 12. And if that’s the maximum most children aren’t doing it.
Again the hyperboles are annoying.

Not a single nursery near me opens past 6pm and that is London where most people commute.

I think we're in very similar boats, I'm also a professional woman who's read all the books but my family aren't nearby - they're loving and available over the phone but a once-a-week phone call isn't the same as just being around often and seeing things on the ground, helping me in the moment etc. I compare it a bit to juniors getting trained via zoom with one "training session" a day instead of just sitting next to someone who can quickly point out little things before they become problems!

I think it's a combination of more children with SEN and also some children who are neglected with screens.

In the past an inadequately parented child would be out and about with other kids and/ or entertaining themselves in various ways. This is likely a much better set up than being on an ipad all day. I think people really kid themselves about this.

I see threads on here about screen time that are properly shocking and lots of people reassuring each other about how of course you have to put a toddler in from of a screen for a few hours a day or you couldn't get anything done. It's shitty parenting and we shouldn't pretend it isn't.

ETA - the OP is pretty misleading though obviously 25% of children do not start school in nappies!

I’m probably my going to get flamed here - but I think a lot is to do with the lack of a family matriarchal structure (specifically grandmothers!!) being around.

I truly think humans are designed to live in closer extended family units - eg relatives like aunts/ grandmothers are supposed to be around and show young new mothers how it is done. Show them how to parent and help out.

im an educated, privileged professional but I have no family or friend support. I was utterly lost with how to be a mother. I didn’t have a clue what I was supposed to be doing, how to teach my child to potty train (yes I bought books but children don’t always follow what’s in the books!) and I’ve just muddled along but I’m not sure I’ve done the best job. I really could have used a guiding hand. everyone has mentioned sure start centres etc which I agree with, but that’s state provided, when really I think the very fabric of society now is the problem. We are the first generation really where this has started to fall apart, the silent generation largely where involved with family (if they were alive), its boomers who have been the first to have a “retirement” focused on leisure, and do to more millennials likely relocating due to university etc, families are spread out.

disclaimer - I know I’m going to get flamed. I know not everyone has family, or they help, or they don’t etc. I’m not talking about individuals. I’m talking about wider societal demographics changing beyond recognition compared to 50 years ago.

Frankly, a little research and a bit of basic maths will tell you that this survey interviewed fewer than 4% of primary school teachers (3.8%), in actuality. Much of it is anecdotal and in truth, the survey size is not statistically valid. It is interesting to note that @Liveandletlive18 has not returned to make further comments after post this.

As a teacher who works with vulnerable students- it's not your children this is talking about and its not to do with low income, having SEND or being from another country. It's the children who are never read to, who spend all weekend every weekend watching tv or on a device as they get older, who never go to museums/library/playgrounds, who's parents don't talk to them when they shop/cook/pick them up from school, who never come to parents evening or have interest in what their children are learning.however the parents that do this often have had terrible parenting themselves - the cycle has to be broken through community outreach - parenting classes,social support etc but there just isn't enough at all.

Well said! What works for one, doesn't mean it works for others but there are still some parents out there trying to do the best for their kids whether they are in nursery or cared for at home.

I am a child of the 60's, my parents both worked and we didn't have half of the labour saving devices there are now. Not only was I capable of going to the loo by myself, I could read and write and my Mum and Dad weren't rocket scientists! A child that came to school in nappies was an extreme rarity and was usually something medically related.

But then as a child we weren't sat watching TV or computers all the time, we were running around, playing games, building dens and using our imagination.

Oh crikey, definitely sounding like my mum now!

I think the problem is that parents don't look after themselves as well as they could and as such struggle to look after their children productively. Working or sahp.

Parents don't sleep enough. Or not well enough. They themselves are on their phone or tablets too late, because doing so is relaxing. They wake up after a poor quality night sleep. They are already tired. They get through the day just coping until they can finally relax. When they should involved their kids with their activities like cooking, they instead send them to watch crap because cooking is a task to do as quickly as possible and so without the kids. Same with other chores or fun activities. They feel guilty so take them to expensive fun activities during the weekend, when again, they try to interact minimally because they are tired. They put diapers on their kids because it's easier and quicker. They will do better next day, next week, next month, but the same happens again the following day.

Everything becomes a vicious cycle. What we need is parents focusing on being mentally and physically healthier so they can have more energy to educate their kids to be healthy themselves. And enjoy it rather than considering all these tasks as chores.

Chiming in here to say where I live in a big city nearly all of our local nurseries are open 10-11 hours a day. The majority open at around 8 and close at 7. However, the local pre-schools (from age 2/3 onwards) do around 8am-4pm.

I started primary in the early 1970’s.
We didn’t have much at all. No family car. My mum worked part time in a low wage job - she’d had a career before us, but gave it up to look after us.
This is what I remember - a a fair bit of discipline. We ate at a table. Taught how to use knives and forks. Could look after ourselves when it came to washing and going to the toilet. Taught how to say please and thank you. Shown how to behave in other people’s homes and then out in public.
Of course in those days we had one TV, three channels that showed some kids TV at lunch and tea time but that was it.
My mum taught me how to read and read to me.
She was that age during the war brought up in abject poverty, her dad was away and her very young mum used to leave her locked in the house. However, along the way, via her grandmother, she was taught manners and respect,
I am not just looking back with rose tinted specs. Kids in my class used to come to school dirty and with holes in their clothes.
But on the whole our parents were just that and we respected them and our teachers.
I am shocked now when I am around young kids that they don’t move their heads from screens. They aren’t seeing the world around them.
And by the way I know fantastic parents and know their equally wonderful kids who are really lovely to be around.

Definitely not that comment was so out of order. I had my son at 15 and he was potty trained at 2 and is one of the smartest in his class. That posters theory doesn't even make sense because the average age of a first time mum has increased in line with this problem. iPads kids are probably the biggest issue

I disagree. Thank god some parents don't stay at home with their confirm! Nursery/childminder fills in the gaps. I think it's more about attitudes. You can have a SAHP who does little or a working parent who does lots with their child. Screens are a big problem. Most of us are addicted.

Covid can't be blamed now for current young children being behind. It's all about the parent and not about the child for a lot of people.

I don’t think you can put the majority of the blame on young parents and benefit families (most families on benefits are working anyway) when I know plenty of middle class families with two good earners who put their kids in front or Miss Rachel etc

Even then, you would be hard pressed to fine a nursery open for 12 hours unless it was on site in a hospital!

I suspect it is more likely to be children from families that are quite heavily dependent on state support. Many of them lose the ability to do anything for themselves and expect the school to do everything for them.

I don't have direct experience but a friend has been working with families in a poor area of Bristol. She has been shocked and depressed at how hopeless many of the parents are, and it's so sad to see young children living in homes with no proper human interaction.

I don't get any benefits for my DC. As I explained up the thread, I potty trained at 2.5 and never went back to nappies. DC was still having up to 6 accidents daily in year 2- I've paid privately for physical and mental health checks at great cost because no one took me seriously. My child has SEN and I wasn't taken seriously with that either - my DC is exceedingly bright but with quite severe SEN issues.

I do think some don't know, a lot of young parents now will have grown up with screens. Not just TV but constant access to screens whenever. It's an addiction.

I think it's a combination of things. Although most kids of working parents I know turned out well adjusted and do well academically etc. The children I see struggle the most are those in the grasps of "poverty' in Scotland. Unfortunately this often means in real terms parents who don't work, have an alcohol or drug addiction and which sitting about all day getting benefits etc has been part of. They are not actually poor and in most cases financially better of than working parents . They loose self confidence, ability and at often bored and lack direction so go further into addiction. This then causes neglect, disinterest etc.

There is also a huge issue with changing attitudes around potty training. I was told countless times that boys "train later" so not bother even trying. I did try and my son's all trained just after there second birthday including my 2 nuerodivergent sons. Had I taken the advice and not bothered to try they wouldn't have been trained until much older. Disposable nappies are also a huge problem because toddlers don't feel wet. They need to feel wet to want out of nappies sooner.

I have worked with 4 year olds who are more than able to use a toilet but the parents still insist on putting them in nappies (or pull up pants). They don't see this is holding the child back.

I had to put my DD into childcare every day because I was a working single parent after my marriage broke down due to my ex husband's abuse.

What should I have done to have met your breathtakingly bigoted parenting standards?

Was I not allowed to use my annual leave on holidays? Should I have given up my job to stay at home potty training my kid?

I'm so tired of this stunning ignorance on here about working parents...

Sadly I think this is down to the lack of support parents have to stay home with the children in the early years. It doesn’t serve children to go to an early years setting and mix with other babies / children, when they should be home learning off adults and getting one-to-one care. Rather than funding free child care places, offer the funding to parents to see if it means they can stay home OR pay a relative to stay home so they can work.

My kids were all home educated until 7; they attended various groups with a mixed age group of children as well as being immersed into society, visiting shops, being with adults etc. Whenever I encountered children in reception or year 1 classes I couldn’t believe how behind their speech seemed! In certain it’s from being stuck with peers of the same age for long periods of time.

To a certain extent I understand what you mean, but you see the things I list when you watch tv/insta reels/facebook. Do you genuinely think that the parent who puts their baby/toddler in front of a screen so they can watch another screen themselves has no idea that it is not the best parenting? (genuine Q)