Recent study of children joining reception class

This is a very good point.

Premature births, births that require significant intervention and early life illness that we now have the technology for to maintain life all come with increased risks on neurological development.

It's also not uncommon so it's easy to dismiss this as one of those things, but it's actually quite an important consideration

Almost as if modern society where women work full time and babies go to school at just turned 4 isn't working....

The comments have been both ways with blame on SAHPs too. This us vs them culture needs to stop.

Or no mums. As many mothers since 2020 have been.

The number of children starting school not fully potty trained is just going to increase. Part of this is a cultural shift in when children are potty trained over the last 80 years. I think that we are really do a disservice to most children waiting so late to potty train them and having a scheduled holiday to do it. It's something that is best done gradually when they are young.

Thank you for saying this. I really don’t like this SAHP vs working parent culture. SAHPs are perfectly capable of looking after their children properly. I’m not sure asserting that your children are fine and hit milestones because they were in a nursery all day and nursery did the majority of the potty training really bigs up the argument that therefore their parenting is better?

I mean you're not wrong, but why is everyone on here getting so defensive?

I read that article. My kids are older, granted, but no, none of them started school in nappies - despite two of them being in nursery from 8 months old. None of them were unable to climb stairs or sit unaided on the floor, although I will admit to usage of words like "trash" and "flashlight" more often than I would have liked!

I was, and am, a working parent. This is true. It's also true that what's being said here doesn't apply to me and mine. Why are so many mumsnetters unable to have a conversation about something that is clearly a real problem without getting personally upset, while at the same time saying it's not actually relevant to them?!

So people gave been complaining about kids speaking with an American accent since sesame street. It's not a problem per se as long as eyfs and ks1 teachers are taught well and the importance of British sounds impressed upon them. The issue they're getting at is it is symptomatic of a lot of screen time and anecdotally everyone suspected that it's screen time on the move. Kids are looking at screens in restaurants and shops to keep them from getting bored and disruptive and do they're not developing skills from a) the world around them/whatever task the parent is doing and b) being bored. I have strong opinions on this, linked with people not taking kids on errands and so kids starting school not being able to role play opticians etc. Just home. But others will have strong feelings about preventing disruptive behaviours.

Let’s also not forget that this survey spoke to a tiny demographic -1000 teachers. There are about 250,000 primary school teachers in the uk.

My son sometimes speaks with an American accent and is almost 6 and still not potty trained.

He is autistic.

We had him in nursery full time but it became quite clear that they were not meeting his needs, not able to even with adjustments and keeping him in there full time was tantamount to neglect.

I dropped my hours significantly at work. We were in the bathroom hours every single day trying to potty train. We had occupational therapy intervention, regular health visitor intervention, speech and language therapy more often than most children with autism and a significant speech delay.

He's a gestalt language processor and he was really interested in American cartoons and Peppa pig. Although we used gestalts at home and offered functional phrases he only really picked up on those from the TV or his tablet.

We would spend hours every day reading. I would read out loud even if he was doing solo play. We would read on a morning and before bed and we would look at the pictures and I'd talk about them.

The only foundation we had for building his language was American cartoons.

His speech has developed so much now but sometimes he sounds like Peppa, sometimes he sounds American and others he sounds like he's got a broad Yorkshire accent.

He got kept behind a year so he's doing reception twice. He is still in nappies and that's the advice we were given by ERIC as without the nappies he withholds.

He will use a toilet if one is available for a wee but he won't poo in a toilet and there's too many variables with bathrooms to make each and every one a sensory pleasant place to be.

I'm really lucky that my son got a diagnosis before starting school. I feel like it's saved us a lot of shame and parent blaming but like my son there are other children in his class who present similarly but haven't been fortunate enough to get a diagnosis so young.

And it's much less safe too, since there are many more cars.

The Kindred survey I’ve just looked at does not say that a quarter of chikdren joined Reception still in nappies. It says that about that number had "frequent toileting mishaps" (no definition given of "frequent").

Still too many "accidents", but that is not the same as "still being in nappies".

Unless we are looking at different studies, you are misrepresenting the survey's findings. Why? Because it makes a more sensational story? Accuracy matters.

Yes exactly we played out a lot and were sometimes sent outside. We'd always find neighbours to play with.
My children have never played out in the street, because none of the neighborhood children do, but additionally it's often frowned upon these days

First of all you have to determine if there is actually a real problem. This was a very poorly reported study. If you actually read it, it doesn't say 25% of kids are in nappies starting school for example.

There have also been concerns about 'lazy parents' and the development of children for decades. I remember a child who repeatedly soiled in Reception and Year 1 nearly 40 years ago. My own sister cried at drop off until Year 3. Just like EBSA existed in the 80's and 90's we just didn't call it that or manage it well.

However if there is a real problem what has changed

• increasing use of screen based entertainment, particularly individual screen based entertainment, When you used to turn Postman Pat on the TV for your toddler, you were watching it as you went past and interacted with them over it in brief ways. When you hand them Cocomelon on an iPad, it's individual not a shared experience. Perhaps this has a negative impact

• increasing nursery use. Sure good nurseries provide a positive environment for young children but many are spending hours 5 days a week in them. The research is pretty clear that young children from poorer families get better and broader language exposure at home than in nursery which makes sense, 2 year olds do not learn mature language from other 2 year olds and 1 adult cannot provide individual focused conversation to four children at a time.

• increasing pressure on parents to work. Most families are 2 income now. Some of them send their children to nursery but often they are the privileged ones who can afford this and whose work fits nursery schedules. Many others are juggling childcare round shift patterns, if Mum works the night shift and catches up sleep in the kids' nap times and Dad works the day shift, neither may be a very present parent much of the week. They're exhausted. Many families are doing shift switches, using as hoc bits of childcare, family, older siblings, working from home with the toddler in the next room. None of this is optimal for children's development and these families are stretched financially and in time. They are exceedingly time poor. The idea that both parents should work full time is new, the last time it happened pre First World War there were the exact same complaints about children's development.

2 parents working full time may work great for parents who can afford and have access to high quality childcare but pushing it down to families for whom childcare is either unaffordable or just does not fit their shift patterns (where are the night nurseries?) is not great for anyone.

• failure of services. Health services are stretched thin at the moment. Health visitors barely see any children but the most at risk. Most families when see are seen by less qualified staff. They may receive no advice or support on development, potty training etc

There may well be other factors. For example id argue the rise in autism in young children mirrors the rise of online dating, a societal change that seems far from child development but makes sense. Now autistic people meet each other and the genetic risk of autism in their children is high. My husband and I met online, we'd probably never have run across each other otherwise. Two autistic parents=autistic children and not 'ND affirming', 'autism is a superpower' autism but significant challenges in development autism than requires societal support.

I saw someone on tiktok blame COVID for the fact her child had a speech delay, but to me unless your child was going to have a speech delay anyway why would lockdown have had an effect? The main way children's language develops is by the parents talking/singing/reading/interacting with them so unless you're admitting that you didn't do that then you can't blame lockdown.

I actually remember on a mums group I was in that a mum was worrying that her 2.5 year old wasn't talking, people were asking how he responds when given an instruction like "can you find your shoes" or whatever, the mum said she didn't think she'd ever said anything like that to him or asked him to do anything. As it turned out she just wasn't interacting with her child at all. IMO this sort of parenting has a huge affect, but it wouldn't necessarily be picked up before school if the child isn't in a nursery.

Yes, I would agree with this.

Also, your environment and peers has a lot to do with it.

I was clueless when I had my first child, and lived 6 hours away from my family at the time.

I lived in a big city with a lot of poverty / deprivation, however I made a core group of mum friends who were particularly keen on being good mothers. In hindsight, they were perhaps a bit over the top and put a lot of pressure on themselves to be perfect, but actually they coped ok.

Anyway, that was my barometer. I soon found my own level and realised i didn't need to be doing quite as much as them (fully organic food, 100% BLW, foreign language lessons from before the kids could speak etc). However, I was certainly influenced by it, in a very positive way. And I do wonder how different my standards would have been if I had been surrounded by "lazier" mums. Probably much lower, I imagine.

at the toddler group i used to take mine to, they had a set of stairs, pretty much like they use in physiotherapy,
great training for toddlers

I mean…. My child has profound SEND and is non-verbal. If he ever manages to speak, I couldn’t give a flying fuck what accent comes out or whether his teachers judge me on it.

I don’t think a child’s accent is particularly important, as opposed to their language acquisition. If a 4 year old knows what a vacation is and is using the word appropriately then that’s much better than a child with an RP accent but a limited vocab.

Incidentally, Americans are reporting that more and more American children are speaking with a British accent thanks to Peppa Pig etc so it’s by no means an exclusive phenomenon.

The lack of toilet training is less than ideal, but with modern nappies it is much harder for children to sense the discomfort of being wet so it’s not entirely unexpected that many of them take longer to feel the need to be out of nappies, and the onus is on the parent to be more active in pushing potty training which some may not have the knowledge, or the confidence to do, and yes some may just be lazy and not have tried but potty training but that won’t be all. Let’s also not forget that children used to start school at 5 and now some of them have barely turned 4.

If living in London there are MANY children with parents from different countries. My dh and I are not British and we both come from different countries. We mainly use the American terms, but sometimes British, because after living here a while you start using them. But anyway, just because people use American terms, does not mean they are learning it all from YouTube.

I agree with this....Yesterday I was watching instagram for deco inspiration, there is this lady with a big following - has a beautiful house, three kids, two boys and a little girl, kids rooms immaculate. Then I realised in one of here reels that kids for in boarding school! She was saying in one of her videos that the boys went back so she will do some relaxing and decorating 😑yes I am judging these people. not the ones who do it out of necessity, home life not being stable etc, but this woman is literally just taking videos of herself making tea and reading books by candle light all day.

Also is it really desirable and normal for young children to sit on a mat quietly for swathes of time? It's a skill needed in school for sure if you've got a class of 30.
In a Bev Bos style environment it becomes less necessary.

If my kids were watching TV they were never ever still. They'd be playing with bricks or drawing at the same time and constantly changing positions, or might be dangling upside down from the sofa, or getting the cushions and blankets to make a fort.
I guess personal devices are much more conducive to sitting still and focusing on only that, in comparison to TV.

OP has made up or misunderstood the nappies stat. 25% are not fully potty trained. I can't see where that's defined in the report but it certainly doesn't say 25% are in nappies.

The op has also taken a lot of quotes from teachers and implied they are findings from the report rather than anecdotal comments to underline the stats.

It does make for stark reading but at no point does it ask about parents work status, social status, amount of screen time or anything else, that's all conjecture.

The stats I found most troubling was the parents information on what was necessary to start school and also whose responsibility certain tasks were.

I can't imagine lazy parenting is a new thing. I would imagine lazy parents of the past just left their kids to entertain themselves / play out in the street / left in the care of neighbours of family members.

Oh definitely. Until quite recently, a looooot of the entertainment aspect of parenting was hived out to other kids in the vicinity. But parents now don't have access to that 'village'.

Exactly. I don't really like the phrase, but 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' springs to mind here. Just do your best, that's all anyone can do.

A considerable percentage of people will live in a flat nowadays. What’s so unheard of about not having stairs at home??

I live in a GF flat and the nursery my children attend is all one level, while they can physically climb stairs they definitely haven’t got much practice.

And have you seen some of the abuse on here about parents who dare to let their child walk up stairs on their own in public and how much of an awful inconvenience it is to other people?

What a horrible judgemental, and seeming envious little post.